Thanks 魔女の宅急便 1 | L26 is on of the books I want to read but still feel a little too intimidated by. I also still need to pick up a copy of it as well.
My grammar level is approx N4 or close to though that’s probably too low for me to actually read any native material unguided, but it’s definitely higher than my kanji knowledge. Vocabulary is definitely higher N4 though I do know some N3 and N2 vocabulary I’ve picked up through reading.
Did you use anything to help with grammar understanding at all (like dictionary of grammar series) or was it just the book clubs?
Thanks I did notice some of my misunderstandings have been from the ambiguity of whatever I’ve reading due to me mot looking things up if I vaguely understand them or at least think I vagely understand them. I’ve no issue with ambiguity depending on my mood and tiredness levels but I find that if I re-read it and understand it differently it makes me want to fully re-read everything I’ve already read just to check I’ve understood it.
I have been reading the first chapter of the short stories intensively then reading the rest extensively but looking up the occasional word here and there and finding I’ve understood better so was gong to use that for the first few chapters when I switch to native material to see if that helps.
The book clubs are a good shout, I do find myself intimidated by the pace of them though which is why I’ve not joined another one. I’ve attempted them through a different site which did multilingual books so that anyone could join in but I seem to have an aversion to anything that seems to pit me against other people since I feel I learn pretty slow (been learning Japanese properly for over 2 years and I’m not even fully confident at N4 yet)
I read some bilingual readers and then read quite a few manga. These got me more used to reading Japanese, and since the manga usually had furigana that also helped out with kanji. When I read my first book it was a whole new experience though - I found it very difficult and slow going, but I persisted page by page. My second book was quite slow as well, but I understood so much more! I didn’t choose by level, I just picked up books that appealed to me. You might find short story collections helpful as well, since you can sense your progress much more with those!
My first book was Skycrawlers. I decided to read it because I got a free ticket to the anime and enjoyed it. It was 2006 or 2007, before I got JLP1, before the JLPN started. I decided to read Japanese books again after I watched an academic discussion about the book 沈黙 沈黙 | L39
The book is about the Portuguese missionaries when Christianity was forbidden in Japan. I also read a couple of stories with translations and audio books a long time ago. It took me a lot of time to complete the book.
So, my tip here is using audiobooks. I really like reading while listening to the audiobook version of a book. This allows me to enjoy the book in a good rhythm and there is much less need to use the dictionary. After reading/listening two audiobooks of an author (Ikeido Jun) it felt really easy to read the third book unassisted.
January 2021: started reading manga, beginning with https://learnnatively.com/book/830efb7474/. I chose it because I loved it when I read it in English and it’s almost universally recommended for beginners.
June 2021: started reading kids books, beginning with 動物と話せる少女リリアーネはじめてのものがたり しあわせの黒いねこ | L17. I chose it because it was short and easy since it was targeted at children in Japan learning how to read. And it had a cat on the cover.
February 2022: started reading tween books, beginning with 華麗なる探偵アリス&ペンギン | L22. I chose it because someone recommended it as an easy and mildly entertaining book.
July 2022: started my first light novel https://learnnatively.com/book/6baaa12b46/. I read it so I could join a cult because a lot of people recommended it as a fairly easy book and I like video games so the lingo would be familiar to me.
I guess the tl;dr is I read things because they seem easy and at least mildly interesting.
My timeline makes it look like I decisively jumped from one level to the next to the next, but it’s actually all a jumble, because I was still using textbooks and graded readers for a long time after I started native material, and I’m still reading kids books even after finishing a light novel. It hasn’t been a straight line of progression; it’s been an erratic and highly inefficient zigzag of trial and error.
It felt like decoding, not like reading, because almost every sentence had to picked apart and analyzed in order to be understood. It was very slow. It was exhausting, not just mentally but physically and even emotionally. A lot of the time, it was like ramming my head against a brick wall. But it was also incredibly exciting. I was thrilled every single time I read a sentence without struggling or recognized a kanji I had studied. Interestingly, I found stories were much more emotionally affecting than they normally would be — sad things were sadder, funny things were funnier. I suppose it was because Japanese was so new and alien to me that it made everything, even banal children’s book plots twists, seem fresh and new. This effect, sadly, has been wearing off as I get better at the language, but I enjoyed it while it lasted.
I already mentioned how I started reading in another thread. (tl;dr: 2 years of Japanese classes then suddenly manga). It took then a few years to move to actual books, with a few attempts here and there. During that time, I kept learning Japanese and read probably around 300 manga volumes? In the other thread, I only mentioned the first successful attempt at reading a full book, but I guess I should also mention that I made regular attempts during the period leading to that point. The most notable one was たのしいムーミン一家 | L18??. I made it to the halfway point when I was around N3, but eventually gave up. After every failed attempt, I would just be depressed and binge random manga series from Bookoff and go back to studying.
So, I guess I just banged my head on the wall until the wall broke.
I kinda jumped head first instead of transitioning.
I go over how I study on this Bunpro thread if you want background information.
As to why I didn’t really transition, is because I think my Kanji study was flawed. The methods I tried before Kanji Kentei (Basically Japanese School Grade order), had weird criteria for teaching which Kanji.
Aside from the method which you might or might not agree with, the order where you are presented the Kanjis doesn’t feel just natural. Some go from easy to hard writing. Some go by radical order, others go by JLPT level etc.
When I switched to Kanji Kentei, after 2 levels I could already start picking up certain books and be able to read them without having to look up every single word. You just need to pick up the appropriate material according to your level, while if you go for let’s say WaniKani or KanjiGarden order, you are going to struggle to find (Book clubs might make this more doable if you are a WK user, but I’m not a fan of having my reads curated for me).
So as for what materials I went with, I tried graded readers. They are great for reading, but they don’t keep me hooked up. Feels like a chore and I fear that it might make me grow a dislike for reading, like the forced school books did to me in the past (Thanks for making a kid read Kafka, that was great mind○○○k)
After I did 2.5 levels of Kanji Kentei I went for this:
Manga wise:
Reasoning: From what I had laying around that I bought it cheap used in Japan, this had a decent amount of volumes, and I liked the premise, and had furigana and what seemed easy plot/words.
Light novel wise:
Reasoning: So, I strongly suggest people jump to real light novels as soon as possible after my experience with these books, instead of graded reads, if your end game is being able to read. It gives a more realistic experience to reading. I choose that series, because among the easy light novel serializations, is the one that hooked me story-wise.
So these are the “easy” light novels, aimed mainly for kids, and great materials if you go by Kanji Kentei / School grade order:
Some of these publishers have popular titles like Suzumiya Haruhi, Demon Slayer… so you are not only stuck with original titles, there’s a bit of everything, and has a variety that I struggled to find with graded readers.
The TL;DR is, find a “easy” light novel that matches your tastes, and go for it.
I’m not trying to go against graded readers and other materials, but it was just not for me.
This is the best feeling. And finishing a book on your own has a special excitement too.
The key for me for progressing with Kanji was seeing that I could start applying to real world material.
That was one of the first manga series I also read! I agree that it’s a very easy read.
I picked it because it was long, which means that it must be good, right? I also kept reading it for a while (since it was ongoing at the time) and I was really hoping for the two main characters to get together (not realizing at the time that, for such series it probably doesn’t happen until the end). The fan service eventually overcame my limits and I just dropped it, though
Hard agree on that. If I could go back in time, I’d probably tell my younger self to just power through some of those easy children book (didn’t know what light novels were at the time)
Without derailing the topic too much, I have the newest volume coming up on Monday, but the series has other bigger issues for me right now, that I’ll probably share on the currently reading thread or in a review. Hope to be wrong though, we will see.
I’m kind of old school in that there weren’t graded readers when I was moving into intermediate Japanese. (Or maybe there were, I just didn’t know about them?)
I realised “I should be about N2 level but I’ve never read a book from start to finish before”, so just decided to do it. Took a few tries stopping and starting but ended up reading 魔女の宅急便 1 | L26 in about two months. I picked it because I really like the anime and was always curious about the novels.
My advice is to start reading novels if it’s what you want to do. Not because you feel like you should or have to, butwant to.
Thanks
I’ve been reading bilingual guided short story collections aimed at learners but I also have Zoo 1 & 2 as well as 神様 which are all native level short story collections. I’ve a few others as well that are short story collections at native level.
I’ve a few manga (Naruto, Dragon eye, Legend of Zelda, Tales of Vesperia etc), some I’ve read in English and some are just ones I’ve got an interest in the games or anime etc. Reading novels in Japanese is part of my overall goal though I do want to read the manga and light novels I’ve got as well.
Thanks
I’ve got a fair few audio books (around 50 iirc) some of translations, some native level and some beginner to intermediate learning level. I just feel that my mind wanders when reading and listening so I’m not actually focusing on either. It seems to be ok if I read it separately before I listen but just listening while reading seems to distract me from what I’m doing so I end up day dreaming and can’t focus on it. I have heard that it’s a good way to learn the kanji though and does help with pacing etc.
Thanks You started around the same time I did, I just got hung up on Genki and couldn’t understand the grammar properly til I switched to MNN in late Dec 2020 I’m going back to Genki once I’ve compl MNN though, using it for review.
I started reading graded readers about a year later while going back over the MNN stuff again and boosting my listening skills.
I’ve had a lot of recommendations of よつばと! And it’s great for beginners but I just couldn’t get into it from the preview I read https://learnnatively.com/book/6baaa12b46/ is another one recommended but I couldn’t get into it either.
That’s how I’ve felt with some of the short stories I’ve been reading, especially the ones which are more than a few pages long. But some parts I’m reading and some parts I’m decoding. Wasn’t sure if it was because I’m self studying or because it’s just the process but I’ve heard a few people say that as well.
Thanks banging my head against a wall is how I felt when trying to tackle a few of the books I’ve got, hence why I’ve stuck with graded readers and guided short stories so far.
I’ve got novels and light novels to read but know if I attempt it and can’t at least understand some of it then it’ll get me down and put me off my studying. It’s also difficult to understand a book if I’ve not read it in my native tongue and I’ve not got anyone who can tell me if my translation is correct or not so I’m kinda also using the guided short stories to test that I’m understanding it correctly if that makes sense.
Thanks I read your study post and a lot of it makes perfect sense. The Kanji Kentei 3DS is a good shout and that might actually be part of my problem since I’m using Wanikani to learn kanji along side MNN though I am picking up some Kanji recognition from the short stories (since they phase out the furigana as each story progresses).
I’ve used My Japanese coach for DS before which I felt was decent enough but I didn’t get far enough in it to learn the kanji. I’m adding kanji kentei to my list
Totally get where you’re coming from with graded readers. I’ve only read the free ones or my guided short story books so I don’t spend loads of money in things I’m most likely not going to use much. The short story books were on offer at the time and I’ve a friend who I’m passing them onto once they start but they don’t really hold the attention a light novel or novel would if I had the skill to read it as I do the short story books.
I remember how I felt after completing one of the longer short stories with chapters in it and how I felt about completing one of the highest level free graded readers and understood most of it. It was an awesome feeling, one I’m hoping will translate to when I finish my first light novel snd first novel
Thanks I think I’m partly scared of just diving straight in because I know I’m not good enough yet and there’s a lot that I don’t know which will only cause me to stumble along and misunderstand what I’m reading.
I’ve tried before about 6 months after I started MNN and joined a multilingual journaling website (journaly.com). They did a multilingual book club (they’ve done a few now) of La Sombra Del Viento (Shadow of the Wind iirc) and I picked up a Japanese copy of it. Managed about 5 pages across 5hours approx (one page a day reading for about an hour), it’s a paperback bunko so very small pages, and I understood very little but also it had No furigana so I wasn’t just looking up grammar and vocabulary but also trying to look up the readings of the kanji as well. Needless to say, I shelved it after the first week because I wasn’t getting far and I wasn’t quite sure I was understanding it correctly even though I was checking my translation in the English translation. It made me take a step back from studying and brought me down quite a bit which is why I’m hesitant to jump in the deep end again.
Novels and light novels are what I want to read along side the manga I do have. But my ultimate goal is to understand and be able to communicate in Japanese. Reading goal is to be able to read native novels in the same way I can read an English novel.
They aren’t really important in the grand scheme of things which is why I didn’t list them out. They are: 空中ブランコ | L31 - bought randomly off ebay, didn’t like it, but grew my vocab a ton 怪人二十面相 | L28 - also bought randomly off ebay, but a wonderful book that got me into 江戸川乱歩 (author) https://learnnatively.com/book/dc838454ca/ - bought because I’d seen it mentioned a ton online. I was already comfortable in the books around 30 though, so I think I missed the boat on truly enjoying it 夜警 | L31 - bought randomly off ebay. Got me into 赤川次郎 刑事の子 | L35 - bought randomly off ebay (do you sense a theme?). It was pretty challenging for me at the time, but having read another one of the authors (宮部みゆき) books I suspect it was one of her easier ones I’m too far removed from it to say whether 35 is apt, but it’s probably somewhere in the 30-35 range.
I didn’t join WK forums until after Natively started and brandon invited me to go there. I didn’t join a book club until a random impromptu one a few months back for 三毛猫ホームズの推理 | L32 inside the Read Everyday thread on WK.
That’s a really strong sign that you’re ready to try some native material, I think. You’ll at least skip the awkward stage I went through where every single sentence was agonized decoding — I jumped into native material waaaay too early. I don’t regret it, but it only worked because I’m a masochist when it comes to books.
I see you added 動物と話せる少女リリアーネはじめてのものがたり しあわせの黒いねこ | L17 to your wishlist. If you end up reading it, let us know how it goes. Heck, I could send you my copy, it’s just gathering dust on a shelf now.
The BEST feeling, omg. Seeing how what I had to study applied to real world material totally reinvigorated my studies. It shifted my mindset from “random crap I have to memorize for some goddamned reason” over to “I need this so I can understand what character A said to character B in that scene I just read.” It’s so much more motivating. Reading makes me want to study more, because studying enables me to read more.
I do have some grammar dictionaries, which I honestly don’t use as often as I should. I also like using Grammar Points - Japanese Grammar Explained | Bunpro as an easy way to look up grammar points (as long as you realize that what you encountered is a grammar point that is). I don’t remember what I actually used/did at the time though, since it was several years ago at this point.
Yep, it’s the first Warrior cats book. The story actually held up better than I expected it to, but I’m not sure I’d recommend it to anyone who doesn’t have the nostalgia for it. And I’m glad to hear from another physical book enjoyer too, ebooks just don’t feel the same to me (especially on a traditional screen).
I know a lot of learners read Harry Potter in Japanese, so that could be a good option if you’re interested in reading that story again. If not though, I wouldn’t worry about it. Reading a familiar book is nice, but I think reading a book you care about is way more important.
I also think manga are a good starting point because the images offer context to all the text, making it easier to know what’s going on. It seems like most people here read a few (or a lot of) manga before diving into books, so that might be worth a try.
This is so true. I read a couple really dumb manga when I first got comfortable with reading manga, and I thoroughly enjoyed them even though they were objectively mediocre. Especially puns, the first few Japanese puns I actually understood on my own made me literally laugh out loud when reading. Somehow it felt like I was reading as a kid again. I think this might be why a lot of people don’t enjoy reading as much when they get older, as the novelty wears off, but that’s just my totally unfounded conjecture
魔女の宅急便 1 | L26 is on of the books I want to read but still feel a little too intimidated by. I also still need to pick up a copy of it as well.
You started around the same time I did, I just got hung up on Genki and couldn’t understand the grammar properly til I switched to MNN in late Dec 2020 
I’m too far removed from it to say whether 35 is apt, but it’s probably somewhere in the 30-35 range.
If you end up reading it, let us know how it goes. Heck, I could send you my copy, it’s just gathering dust on a shelf now.
Seeing how what I had to study applied to real world material totally reinvigorated my studies. It shifted my mindset from “random crap I have to memorize for some goddamned reason” over to “I need this so I can understand what character A said to character B in that scene I just read.” It’s so much more motivating. Reading makes me want to study more, because studying enables me to read more.
