@brandon when it does that, will the invite count towards them joining Natively itself, or specifically the Natively forum? Because I think rn that the invite links are specifically for the forums.
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It’s the subscription page of Natively, so Natively.
Edit: you can try for yourself (while in private mode/logged out) Natively Forums
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I’ve looked at Bradley-Terry, which is essentially is Elo but for a static system, like Natively. There’s even a package for it which i’ve played around with, but it’s not totally straightforward as it ran into resolution errors… you have to be mindful that you only feed it things which are tied into the global system and not just an island.
Elo doesn’t have that issue since it doesn’t calculate everything at once. You can specify an approximate value and it can just take that at face value. It’s just so easy and flexible!
I’ve tried searching around and reading some math papers… but I’ll be honest it’s not my strong suit 
I’ve only read the first few pages but this looks incredibly promising! I’m definitely keeping that one saved, may rival Bradley-Terry.
However, it’s not really a priority right now. I would much rather spend the little while to roll out the historical gradings widget so that you could get a better sense of the rating system’s error bars, rather than overhauling the rating system.
More Grading Talk
We will at sometime move to a Bradley-Terry model or something better. I’d really prefer to somehow compile your own personal rankings first and only then combine everyone’s personal rankings together so that every person gets one vote, rather than every grading getting a vote (biases towards people with a lot of gradings). I’m not sure if that’s possible though… as your paper shows, this is an active area of research and from what I can tell, not at all a trivial problem.
All that being said, I think the current Elo system does do an ok job for now. Yes it jostles up and down a few levels, but generally around one point… not skewing all over the place. And there’s just so many straightforward, well defined, high-impact product features to build, it’s hard to prioritize an ill-defined, hard to solve one.
We’re also collecting the right type of data, so it’s not terribly pressing right now. If there’s anyone out there that wants to play around with some data and try to figure something out, I’m all ears! I can’t guarantee I could implement it (depends on how hard it would be to implement and how much benefit we’d get)… but happy to provide data and accredit you if we do implement it!
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One thing that might be worth considering is trying to implement “slightly harder” and “slightly easier” gradings on top of just the three we have already. Consider a situation in which book A is graded several levels below book B. I agree that B is harder, but I think it’s not that much harder. If I then accurately grade A<B, the end result will be that B gets moved even farther away from A, exactly the opposite of what I’d actually want to happen. So, apart from reading even harder books (in order to grade B<C), I can’t actually grade B appropriately.
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You aren’t the only one who’s wanted more buttons, but I do think you’re the first one to mention that particular conundrum 
I’d say having 5 buttons is a lot to ask from the grader, but it kinda falls into the same debate as 3 vs 4 vs 5 buttons on Anki 
I tend towards 3, but I understand how people want 5. There’s no definitive answer here, just lean 3 and reluctant to change haha. Will change if everyone really wants it.
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Now that it’s mentioned, that makes me think of how I get irritated when I’m taking those online job application tests and instead of saying “slightly agree” or “slightly disagree” I have to go with a hardcore “disagree” and “agree” when I know that neither of those are my real answer. But considering that it would continue to pit those answers against others, I can see why it would make sense to move to 5 if you decide to.
ALSO: I HAVE FINALLY PROVEN TO BE VICTORIOUS AGAINST THE BADGE!
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I don’t think that’s much of an issue… is A and B are far apart, then the ELO formula won’t give much to B for being harder.
Meanwhile, if it’s above its proper level, @Adarain can read another book around the real level of B and mark it “similar difficulty” which would reduce its level anyway. (The grading of other people may also correct the level).
I’m also in favor of less buttons rather than more. It’s already difficult enough to choose as it is, I don’t want to have to worry about “a little harder” versus “harder”.
Edit:
Haha same. As the song goes, this was a triumph; I’m making a note here: huge success.
Also, we have absolutely opposite opinions! 
Good luck @brandon with making a decision.
Coming up next: *makes poll*; *even split*
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I wonder if it would be good to have a cap on the number of total gradings you can do. You get to do up to 6 right when you finish, but over time as you finish more books you can just accumulate more and more gradings on the same book (on a quick glance I’ve seen as high as 13 from one person, but I’m sure there are cases with more). Capping it would both limit the impact and sort of naturally encourage you to only be grading against things you read more recently (since everything else would be capped out).
Also +1 here for less vs more
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I could be wrong, but I do believe that @brandon mentioned putting a limit/cap already. We talked about how so people eternally grade one book because of what it suggests for grading.
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There’s a cap on the number of gradings
you get for the book itself, but the thing it is graded against also get additional evaluations that way.
That being said, you get only one extra grading at most per book you read and, the more you read, the less likely it is for you to get a comparison against a given book. (So I don’t think it matters so much)
I guess you could cheat the system by adding a bunch of book at once, then remove them from your library as soon as you are done grading them, such that the book you want to affect always get picked 
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Personally I want all caps removed. I want to be able to grade All The Things™, so whatever system allows for that is my preference.
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My wishlist is getting longer… sorry 
but I would love to be able to rearrange my custom “shelves”, “tags”, whatever it’s called.
And also batch add books onto them. So, if I come up with a new tag, I can just select all relevant books and add them, rather than going into every single book and choosing a tag from the dropdown… 
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I know, ugh. And ordering! And I’d love to have a dedicated page / url for viewing a list which prints out the reviews nicely (if they exist), so you could link a sequential ‘N4 Manga’ list or something and it’d essentially operate like a blog article. Especially if I allow you to add a list ‘description’ paragraph.
There’s a lot we can do with lists that’d make them awesome.
Too much to do 
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don’t stress yourself out, please 
all of these are just nice to have 
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@brandon is it possible for us to get a notification when someone friends/follows us on the main Natively site? Right now, we have to manually go check under socials.
and it would be cool if we could possibly message friends on the main site, too, instead of just on here. because non-Natively users can use this forum, too, right?
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Based on my experience with a different service, it’s the other way around. You need a Natively account to get a forum account, but not all Natively user will get a forum account (it is created the first time you log into the forum).
Of course, I guess the content of the forum is public, so one does not need an account to just read it.
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Yes @Naphthalene is correct. It depends on how you set up discourse (our forum software), but the way we have it configured requires a Natively account. That’s not to say they’re an active Natively user (I use the WaniKani discourse forums without really using my WaniKani account), but everyone has an account.
Yeah a notifications system would be really nice ugh. It’s on the list and may be more pressing with more bloggers onboarded… we’ll see.
It would be nice for messaging on the main site, but for the foreseeable future I think it’ll stay on here. Honestly, discourse has all the utilities needed for dm messaging, so it makes sense to utilize… and if someone hasn’t joined the forums they probably don’t want a DM anyway 
Eventually though… maybe. The future is uncertain…
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lol, aye aye captain! I will patiently await it. You have so many things at the front of your list right now, just from what I’ve seen in this chat alone. 
I hope someone is able to be helpful I cannot offer my services because I cannot code lmao
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I have no idea if this has been suggested before, but it would be great if I could write a personal non-public note to any book - especially on ones in my wish list! You know, stuff like where I found it, why I want to read it, if there’s an audio book version I might want to listen to instead once the time comes, and so on.
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you’re like the third person in the last 2 weeks! When that happens, it really implies I should implement it soon! Thanks for sending that in 
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