✨ bungakushoujo's study log 🇯🇵🇰🇷

Interesting! Maybe it’s worth checking out for me for at least a month to see if I like the reading functionality! Thanks for sharing :slightly_smiling_face:

This is a good point, it can take a lot of time to enter cards manually and that’s less time spent studying or doing other things and can turn into a time suck. Since the words in question that I want to make into anki cards come from a physical textbook, are written down by hand by me, and then typed into anki later, I’m not sure if I can think of a good way to speed that up… maybe I can quickly type all of the Korean into a spreadsheet, use machine translation to turn the next column into the Japanese translation, give it a check for accuracy, and then turn it into a csv and import it into anki? I don’t know if I am even saving time at that point though. :laughing:

I think the most time consuming part is switching keyboards between Korean and Japanese because I always have Japanese on the back. That gets me thinking, will any of the tools to automate making anki cards integrate with a Japanese dictionary to do KR → JP cards?! :thinking:

This is why I sometimes find language learning tools frustrated. You can go down such a rabbit hole finding the right thing and setting it up and then whoa lots of time has passed haha. :grin: I’m going to keep thinking on what I’d like to do, but this was a helpful thought for me!

I’ve been using anki for over a decade and have barely used the review limit feature lol :joy: (are we all detecting a trend? I’m not an efficient learner, but I am a consistent one…), but this has actually inspired me to keep the limit on my review deck at 200 right now until I get the old cards down to a good amount where I feel ready to add new ones! Thanks haha

It’s a sad reality that I had to accept when I added Korean to my life for sure. Getting up to an okay level was a huge grind and I definitely wished I could have had more time for Japanese, still. It easier when you’re already advanced in one and can be in maintenance mode, though…

This is so true. I’m sure no two people are using anki the same! It did spark an idea for me so thank you so much!

Textbook crew rise up! The textbook guides the way, I follow (and mix in native media)!

I’m also team vanilla anki card! :fist:t2:

I mentioned on Monday that I found I remembered cards with a sentence a little better, but not enough for me to do more than simple vocab cards front and back. I do enough reading that seeing the word in the wild will fill in context gaps for me!

If it’s the shared deck on proper names that I think it is, lemme tell you that I’ve been working my way through that one for years and it’s life changing (and game changing - like wow imagine just being able to read most names?! I can at this point because of that deck haha).

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Courtesy of @bibliothecary this is the deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3885156604 . It’s really been incredible, even with the relatively little I’ve done. Japanese names are one of the few things I think anki is really valuable for, specifically b/c they’re hard to get accessible, consistent exposure to, and the readings are so atypical.

I think I’ll start working on it again tonight :slight_smile:

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Yessss that is the one! Have fun! But don’t do too many new cards at once so you end up with too many reps over time! :upside_down_face: (How to wish an anki user a successful study sesh)

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Thx! I learned that lesson the first time around, with this deck. I eventually just erased and restarted it, and limited it to 2 new words a day. Right now it says: 2 new, 40 reviews… so that should be fine to pick back up with :slight_smile:

As an aside, I really don’t understand Anki’s review scheduling… like 香港 currently has <10分、2日、1.1ヶ月、2.7ヶ月 - but besides the first 2, that card will absolutely show up earlier than those time intervals… so like, what do they even correspond to??

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Excellent! Glad my setup has inspired a potential improvement in yours!

Do they not abide by intervals? I’ve never really kept track per se, but I would think that 香港 seemingly showing up sooner is just because your brain doesn’t really have to think about the meaning if you know it well, so it feels like it popped up sooner than it should. :thinking: But like I said, I’ve never really kept track.

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No, not remotely. If they did, I wouldn’t have the question.

I have 40 cards with 2 new cards each day. If they abided by intervals, I would barely see any cards, every day, at this point. But this has been my experience with literally any deck. You start off, and after a day or two, the times displayed get pretty wild. But the cards absolutely display earlier.

They do something, cuz this morning I only have 14, instead of 40. But what exactly, I couldn’t tell you

Edit: even the one I just pushed 10分 for, showed up immediately after - just behind all the other cards in the queue.

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Huh, very interesting; I’ll have to keep a better eye on my cards, then.

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I’ll try to remember to update when I see 香港 again, just for reference

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Which time interval did you mark it as?

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Either 1.1ヶ月 or 2.7ヶ月… I’m guessing the former. I would love to not see it for another month or two lol (that card took me a while, so I’ve developed “frustration recall” for it :sweat_smile: )

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You should be able to check the assigned due date for any particular card; if you’re on Android, going to Card browser > long click a cark > go to the three dots menu option > Card Info > check the date beside “Due”. On desktop (don’t have it in front of me, but afaik), Browse > find your card > there’s a column that’ll display due date, and you can enable it if it isn’t already.

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1.1ヶ月 apparently

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So it should pop up sometime in early December, then. Keep your eyes out!

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Going by this logic: the only cards I should see in the next two days are:

Tomorrow: 織田、大輔、剛、茂、平、遠藤、2 new cards.

明後日: 新潟、三重、滋賀県、誠、隆, 2 new cards

Let’s see if either of those hold true

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Might be worth taking a screenshot now of the next cards you’re supposed to see over the next few days/week, so that if some do pop up you can check how soon they skipped the line.

Sorry for all these digressions @bungakushoujo

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Just for science:

timetable - Yellow ones are suspended & irrelevant






1 day (29 hours) later

Today’s words: 剛、大輔、遠藤、無人駅、誠、滋賀県、新潟、織田、無人、平ら、茂、三重 - half of these words were scheduled for 2 days later. So we’re off by a day already.

Tomorrow’s words should be: 織田、無人、無人駅 + 2 new words.
明後日 word’s: 剛、隆.
3 days from now should be: 兵庫、栃木、村上、斎藤、武田、伊達、太田、平

I’ll be offline until tomorrow night, but I’ll do the reviews & report back then

Also @bungakushoujo if you want us to move this to PM, just lmk. Didn’t mean to hijack your log!

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October 31st :pencil2:

Meta - Language Learning Related

In the last two days, I did around 1:45 minutes of listening and 50 minutes of shadowing of ビジネスの未来――エコノミーにヒューマニティを取り戻す | L42??, which continues to be full of diverse topics. One thing that came up in the book was “Flow”, aka that good focused state of mind where you become engrossed in what you’re doing you don’t notice time passing. The book listed out 9 aspects that constitute a flow experience:

Flow Aspects - Taken from Wikipedia
  1. Intense and focused concentration on the present moment
  2. Merging of action and awareness
  3. A loss of reflective self-consciousness
  4. A sense of personal control or agency over the situation or activity
  5. A distortion of temporal experience, as one’s subjective experience of timeis altered
  6. Experience of the activity as intrinsically rewarding, also referred to as autotelic experience
  7. Immediate feedback
  8. Feeling the potential to succeed
  9. Feeling so engrossed in the experience that other needs become negligible

In particular, the aspect of “immediate feedback” grabbed my attention, and I started thinking about how I spend time learning languages and what feedback I get or do not get, and what “feedback” even looks like as a self-learner when you’re going it alone.

When I think about feedback on my language skills, what comes to mind are things like a teacher correcting my grammar or pronunciation, or essay corrections made in red ink. These mental images actually have nothing to do with how I actually engage with learning Japanese, though. I’ve done tutoring and taken classes in the past, but I don’t feel like spending money or time on it right now and I certainly don’t use my free time to write essays by hand for someone with Japanese + teaching skills (who doesn’t physically exist in my vicinity!) to correct using a red pen. I have Japanese friends and I could ask them for feedback - but they’re friends and not language partners, so it just feels weird! Plus, we all work and no one has time for that! And I don’t even care about writing ! I just want to read some books in the little free time I have, while also becoming able to read them faster too if possible?!

When I gave it more thought, though, I realized that I am receiving SOME feedback - it’s just often coming from myself and not from others. Feedback is just another word for a way to understand how well you can do something, and I do have (vague) ideas of that a lot of the time when I’m out there doing study things.

Here are some things I realized that I am doing to give myself automatic feedback when engaging with Japanese:

  • Guessing the reading or meaning of a word before looking it up in a pop-up dictionary to quiz myself.

  • Watching things with Japanese subtitles while actively listening them and using them to check words I missed.

  • Chorusing/shadowing in general with Japanese audio.

I know the extent to which those things provide valuable feedback are really going to differ by individual and level and motivation and have a bunch of caveats. I would even say it’s possible to fall into a trap as an auto-didactic where you get nearly no feedback at all and end up hamstringing yourself in ways you don’t even realize?! But, the point of this log post is not really to debate them or say they’re awesome methods everyone should follow (yes please subscribe to my patreon and newsletter I’ll make you fluent with my special techniques!!!), and is rather to think about and verbalize the ways that I guide myself to understanding what I am not doing well and how to improve. I feel that being cognizant of what I am doing and how will let me further tweak and improve that feedback loop and hopefully allow me to learn more and better.

In addition to that, I’d also like to proactively ponder new ways I can introduce self-guided feedback into what I do. The most obvious first step that comes to mind is…recording myself shadowing or speaking Japanese…and…trying to improve the things that sound awful….and comparing again…
(Listening to the sound of my own voice speaking Japanese seems kinda horrid but the fact that it’s for a bungakushoujo science experiment also makes it seem kinda fun?!)

So, stay tuned for more random updates where I reflect on how I judge my own progress when I myself am not a native speaker and thus have to be my own imperfect ruler to measure against. :rofl: Sorry for the post that is not exactly about what I studied today. Non-fiction books just give me thoughts, and all thoughts lead back to my favorite hobby!

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November 2nd :pencil2:

After another long week, it’s finally the weekend! I sat down this morning with a cup of coffee for a nice long study session and was able to de-stress a bit from the work week. :face_holding_back_tears: I love the weekend…

Japanese :jp:

I continued with Modern Japanese Literature today, reading through the sections on the late Showa period and the war. I’ve read a few different things from this time period this year, such as various 太宰治 stories, 小さいおうち、and some 坂口安吾 essays, so it was good to correlate things I’m already familiar with with the history from another angle.

The next chapters are on post war literature from the 50s and 60s, which I’m excited about as I’m less familiar with the history of that time period. I don’t think I’ve read many books from that time period either, so it’ll be a lot of new information for me. Hopefully I’ll find some new authors I’m interested in, as post-war stuff has more approachable language than stuff from Meiji or Taishō. :blush:

Korean :kr:

Textbook studies

I did another section of chapter 5 from 本気で学ぶ韓国語上級 today. Section 5 is the longest in the whole chapter and had 110 vocabulary words about things like the mongol invasions, imperial Japanese rule, and other wartime related bits…pretty challenging. :joy: This book is so serious about being a serious book! I said it before and I’ll say it again - 本気で学ぶ for real!

I went through all the vocabulary and wrote it down, read the text, and reviewed the vocabulary, highlighting words that weren’t sticking again before switching over to a different textbook I have called 4色ボールペンを使って学ぶ 韓国語パワーアップドリル 初中級レベル, which is focused on transcription.

The idea of this textbook is that you use one of those pens that lets you slide down a lever and choose your ink color (I don’t own one of those, so I just use four different colored pens), and then you listen to the audio four different times, each time using a dedicated color so you can see what you are stronger at and what you missed the first, second or third time around.

One thing I LOVE about this textbook is that each chapter is focused around something that could cause you to have bad listening comprehension in Korean - such as specific types of 받침 sound changes, language from announcements or the news, or very formal speech. There is then additional information explaining the sound changes or how the phrases are used and it is all just very clever and well thought through. The author is a Japanese man who runs a Korean language academy and I can tell that he’s a veteran language learner himself - all his textbooks just make sense :pinched_fingers:t2: and are amazing for self-learners who want to those tackle tiny little blind spots that come up when you’re learning alone outside of the country where the language is spoken.

The chapter I did today was on nasalization and out of 6 audio clips, I only transcribed 3 properly. It seems like I sucked at hearing nasalized 받침 before today. :rofl: The lesson helped me uncover some weaknesses and learn, though!

One specific thing I learned was in the third question. The phrase was:

:kr:핵 문제에 관한 기사를 찾는다면 신문사 사이트의 검색란을 이용하세요.
:jp:核問題に関する記事を探すなら、新聞社のサイトの検察欄を利用してください。

I can read the Korean sentence and understand it no problem, but when I went to transcribe it I missed some of the particles and even made spelling mistakes. However, I was interested in particular in the fact I did not catch and recognize “핵 문제” but did catch “검색란“, even though they are both nasalized.

Giving it some thought, I did not recognize 검색란 on the first listen, but I did after simply because it’s very close to the Japanese word 検索欄 (kensakuran vs keomsaekran) and I’m vaguely familiar with 받침 rules from exposure to be able to realize what word it is based on that.

With 핵 문제, I heard it and wrote it down as 행 문제, which is how it sounds but isn’t how it’s spelled. The reason why is simply that I wasn’t familiar enough with the phrase 핵 문제 in Korean or Japanese, which didn’t let me hack it like I could with 검색란. :joy:

So, I can conclude that if I’m kinda familiar with a word either from my Korean or Japanese experience, I can recognize it decently even if it has some funky 받침 stuff happening. But, by knowing the rules and knowing that certain consonants before the ㅁ sound undergo sound shifts, I could also work my way backwards to what the actual word should be. I do know the word 핵/核; if I had been cognizant of the fact the ㅇ I was hearing was in fact a ㄱ before a ㅁ, I could’ve deciphered it correctly.

That is all to say - knowledge of 받침 sound change rules are important for listening comprehension, so don’t neglect them! :grin:

The book them had some explanations in Japanese about what happens in your mouth that causes the consonants to undergo a shift, as well as several different examples of words and phrases with nasalization and some listening drills.

On the listening drill, I totally could not hear the word 급료 (給料) and thought I was hearing 금욕 (禁欲)…which…lol :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: someone take all the BL away from me please. :sob:

The biggest takeaway for me for this supplementary section was how it explicitly covered the particle 만 (だけ) causing words ending in relevant consonants to undergo nasalization.

I knew this but I didn’t reallllly know it?!?
As an example: I like to go interact with some native media after studying in the hopes I encounter what I’ve learned in the wild, and later in the day I was listening to a random Spotify playlist when the kpop song Magnetic by ILLIT came up and and and:

I’ve heard this song a bunch of times (if you’ve been a kpop fan in the year 2024, I bet you have too…:rofl:) and more or less understand all the Korean lyrics just from exposure, but there are a few fuzzy parts. At :22 there is the line: “거대한 자석이 된 것만 같아 my heart”, and I never caught the second half of it after 된…but today I heard it and understood, because 것만 is undergoing nasalization and becomes 겅만. I knew that, but I didn’t really know it! Now I can hear it so clearly!

것만 (ことだけ) is a common construction that comes up a lot - but this experience showed me that I wasn’t reliably hearing it until I went out of my way to explicitly review the sound change rule and learn the phonetics behind it. I’m glad I have this textbook to drill that type of thing so that I can hopefully fill the gaps little by little and have my listening catch up to my reading. :blush:

That’s it for today!

Tldr: if you can’t reliably hear things you are able to read, maybe you should learn some phonetics!

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Could you expand on this a little bit more? I’m curious about the technique.

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Sure! The author actually has some short videos on his YouTube channel explaining the technique so I’ll link them (sorry they’re in Japanese for the Korean learners who don’t know Japanese, but I’m happy to summarize if anyone is curious…).

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