I totally see where you’re coming from with this and understand what you’re saying. If I was just using this as a way of progressing I would be inclined to agree with you.
I think I need to explain why I want to re-read them though (I maybe should have expanded on it above):
I use re-reading as a way to gauge my progress and help me to see where I’ve improved as well as what I need to still work on. It also helps me to remember kanji readings in certain contexts. I use this as a way to keep my motivation going since I can’t see much progress day to day yet when I re-read something and find it easier or find that I remember certain grammar/ vocabulary, it helps me to understand and acknowledge my progress.
When I read these earlier this year, it was to see how much I could understand without reading intensively. It was to see if I could read native level Japanese and how well I could read it.
I don’t plan to constantly re-read the same stuff over and over again if I’m not getting anything from it, though I do find that re-reading after several months gap does let me see improvements that I wouldn’t see otherwise. I did this with the ミラーさん novels and saw a significant improvement with each read through (the red one I read 3-4 times, the blue one only twice, iirc). So it does work for me and also means when I’m overwhelmed in other areas of my life, it gives me something familiar to help keep me focused.
I do read other stuff (most recently Flying witch, Japanese in penpal letters, and I did try 本好き but found it much too difficult for now).
I do appreciate your insight. I feel it’s always good to get feedback from others about things that will help me improve my studying and allow me to try things that I might not have considered previously.
The difference is probably that you read the book without many look-ups, while I look up everything I do not know. Then in your case it makes sense to re-read it as there are actually parts to did not understand at the first time. But for me there would be almost no such things, at least none that I am aware of.
This is exactly what I do, or I’ll only look up certain vocabulary that comes up multiple times. Intensive reading (where you look up everything you don’t know) makes me burn out very quickly so I read books extensively (only looking up what I need to and trying to understand in context) and only read textbook, letters or short sentences intensively.
I wish I could read things intensively, like you do, and pick up a lot from it in one go but I struggle to take so much in and lose the story if I spend too long on one part.
If you don’t mind me asking, do you use flash cards or such to practice the grammar and vocabulary you pick up from reading?
Concerning vocab I did this in the past, but stopped after I got some back log of 2 weeks due to a severe cold. At that time I was at about 11k words and about 1700 jouyou kanji plus some 100+ extra ones. I wasn‘t yet where I had planned to stop but close enough, and I will probably have to double these numbers before I can read somewhat more comfortably.
Now I repeat just by repeated look-up of still unknown words and grammar.
(These are just what I am currently reading)
Some heavy stuff/ internal thought processes because I wasn't sure what else to write and haven't written anything for some time.
I spent ages trying to come up with a plan for this year and I’ve realised that I have no idea what I’m doing. I know where I want to be, but I’m unsure how to get there without crashing and burning out. I want to keep going but I don’ t know how to get my motivation and structure back.
Heads up for what might sound quite selfish, self-centered and possibly a little sad even though none of it is meant that way:
In the last year, my study time that I had in place since shortly after lockdown started (essentially my entire free time outside of my original 37.5 work hours), has been split up into making time for other peoples needs and neglecting my own; whether that was family requirements, time taken up with more work (both paid day job and unpaid carer) or time taken trying to help other people with their struggles and just not making enough time for me to do the things that I wanted to do. This coupled with issues at work and some recent soul searching revelations has made me realise just how much I need my time set aside from this, untouched, just so I can regulate my own mental health.
Japanese during this time has been all that has kept me on an even keel, even when I’ve struggled with it and the frustration it has caused me over the last year with not getting to where I feel I should be (partly due to feeling overwhelmed from outside influences and partly due to the increasing lack of time I have had to spend on it due to other things mentioned above). When I’m stressed or overwhelmed or struggling to sleep, it’s what I turn to: Japanese music or audiobooks, games or films/anime with Japanese voiceovers, reading in Japanese or doing Wanikani during breaks at work. I even found a meditation online that’s spoken in Japanese. Japanese is a comfort, it’s familiar and it’s now integral to my life.
As frustrating as it is that I’m not as far along as I’d like with it, I am still making progress and I still get awe struck when I read something and don’t have to translate it or pick it apart. I think my way of learning it is becoming more like the way that I learned English. I just wish I knew how to make that process faster.
Although immersion is helping a lot, I’m missing things by not knowing what to ask from the people who are helping me to learn (my tutor and language exchange partners). The other day, I asked my tutor a question about certain particles (こと and の) when used in certain situations so I could understand which to use when and the answer was so obvious but it’s something I didn’t pick up from self studying even though it was super simple and something I should have learned previously. I even think my textbook mentioned these uses but only in context and I never picked up on it.
I’ve tried intensively studying from reading and all it did was frustrate me and cause me to feel aversion to reading at all (which is why I read extensively and only intensively read in the textbooks). I also think this is why I didn’t like reading as a kid, (I was about 9 or 10 when I remember first liking a book and wanting to read).
I want this year to be better than 2023.
I want to find the best flexible study routine that works with my currently weirdly set out life commitments so I still get my time when I need it most.
And I want to make more visible progress in all language skills.
My goals are more abstract this year but I hope that this gives me more of the flexibility while still providing enough of a structure for me to work from to get to where I would like to be.
2024/01/09
Semi confused update this week since I’m still trying to find my feet again.
Decided on a small goal for this year: read 6 books in Japanese and complete みんなの日本語 blue textbook set.
Last year I managed to read 3 native Japanese books (not including the manga or graded readers or textbooks). Zoo book 1, キノの旅 book 1 and にゃんにゃん探偵団. I intend to re-read those this year to see how much I’ve improved but I also want to read 6 new books I’ve not read before. I’ve already got 2 lined up from book clubs;
I have also needed to switch to a new tutor because my previous one has since moved to a new line of work (we keep in touch and are planning to do a mutual language exchange so I can practice Japanese but also so she gets to practice her English since she is moving to a non-English nor Japanese speaking country). I have my first lesson with my new tutor due this evening so we will see how it goes.
I haven’t had a lot of time for writing recently but this is something that my new tutor has spoken about and we’re going to look at writing practice using the grammar or vocabulary that I learn in the lessons or stuff that I’m struggling with, so that I can improve.
I have been going through the tests in みんなの日本語 red textbook again before I start on the blue textbooks. Just to see what I need to practice more of. So far ~ても and ~たら forms I need to look at as well as getting to grips more with the particles but even just going back over the tests, I can see a big improvement with my understanding this time around and most of the time it is stupid mistakes or not reading things properly.
I think the break I took from intense studying in December has helped me to get back on a good track with how I feel about studying as well as allowed me so time to indulge in listening a bit more since I was listening to podcasts and such on and off during that time. I also managed to read 7 and a bit books of ふらいんぐうぃっち manga between November and December. for now, I’m going to switch to something else after this book. I’ll be re-reading them at some point, maybe later in the year.
Some random thought regarding my Penpals:
Some of my penpal letters have been returned to sender and not been delivered, unsure if this is due to the current situation or if it is due to something else. I’m hoping that all my penpals are ok in Japan considering the recent events taking place. I might not know if they have to move or such or if they no longer have my info, so I’m hoping they are all ok, regardless of if they manage to write back at any point in the future.
Again, I’m still kind of in a slump because of external factors. My reading now only seems to be when on breaks at work unless I’m invested in the book. My listening is improving, I’ve been re-listening to the Read Real Japanese audio files as they are fast but I roughly know the story so it is easier for me to follow and try to pick out words and phrases. I haven’t done much writing but I’ve been having to write a lot in English the last week which has kind of burnt me out. Hoping to start writing I Japanese again from Sunday this week when I start みんなの日本語 blue book set again as currently my studying seems to mostly be only when speaking with my new tutor, I’ve had 2 lessons and found that the majority of the time, I’m either asking for a word in Japanese (using Japanese except for that word) or I’m trying to think of a way to explain the action of the word or ask if I can show a picture/ video of the action using Japanese.
I am now managing to talk for approx 40 minutes and answer questions or expand upon something in Japanese. Yesterday’s conversation with my tutor revolved around me talking about my bearded dragon lizard and it’s habitat and behaviours. Still using basic language but my tutor is explaining after the sentence, or short few sentences, any mistakes as well as clarifying the best word to use to sound natural if I’m using something weird. My tutor is also giving me homework and writing out phrases or vocabulary that I learned in the lesson with examples of use to help me understand it better which I’m finding is helping a lot. Conversation lessons will be a regular on Tuesdays every week until this Tutor goes back to Japan then we will need to look at an alternative schedule for me due to the time difference.
I got a few more books as gifts from penpals (some of which were on my list and I was struggling to get) and I’ve put a hold on purchasing more due to now having around 270-300 physical books in Japanese not to mention the e-books. I still get a new audio book every month but I’m working on completing the 本好き set for that since I can get them on UK audible.
Whoa, I had no idea the ふらいんぐうぃっち covers looked so cool!! I had out the manga down previously bc it was too slow paced (and Id already watched the anime 2-3x), but those covers are tempting
It is slow paced (and some of it I don’t really understand) but it’s a nice pace for me atm. The covers are pretty cool and I’ve been enjoying some of the silly stuff in it including the weirder characters that pop up now and again.
Starting to find things a little easier on the studying front as I’m doing Homework now with Japanese lessons using grammar and vocabulary that I’ve asked about or tried to use in my lessons. I also completed the first week of the children’s book bookclub ふしぎ駄菓子屋銭天堂.
The grammar is easy enough for me even if some of the vocabulary is out of my comfort zone, so I’ve been using the vocabulary list to look it up quickly and then checking my general understanding of more difficult sentences using DeepL. I’m still getting to grips with long sentences but so far I’m doing pretty well. I’m using this as an intensive reading exercise for me so looking up almost everything I don’t know. I kinda want to buy the other 19 books and the book with all the extra stuff in it too .
I’m still reading ふらいんぐうぃっち as well and will be starting また、同じ夢を見ていた with the bookclub on 28th, so we will see how that goes. It looks like I’m biting off more than I can chew but ふらいんぐうぃっち is my book for at work to read on breaks (when that’s finished, I’ve a few other manga series I can substitute in), ふしぎ駄菓子屋銭天堂 is my intensive reading book (I can easily finish the book club amount within an hour) and また、同じ夢を見ていた will be my extensive book for the moment though I may read slower than the club.
In addition, I want to make another start on みんなの日本語 blue textbook so I’ll be starting that again tomorrow. Listening at the moment will be audiobooks and the audio from みんなの日本語 as well as the game voice overs I’m playing at the moment. Writing will be textbook sentences and my Home work from my lessons and then Speaking will be with my tutor and the 2 Japanese language exchange people I speak to regularly as I seem to be getting on well with that (2-3 speaking sessions per week, one tutored and 2 language exchanges with different people - total of an hour and a half to an hour and 45 minutes depending on the week). I need to decide if I want to add in more tutor led speaking lessons when I have holidays from work and my main focus will be studying/ reading more in Japanese.
I think I have a better plan this time round for making sure I’m getting more studying in but also not making my overwhelm get worse by making the plan more flexible and not trying to cram in too many lessons on days when I need more mental rest. 2 per week was getting too much trying to work around my normal Work and my on call Job.
This year, I would like to take the JLPT N4 (not quite ready for N3 and N4 will give me a better look at what to expect without being too taxing for me since I should know the majority of it by heart by December). I think once I find out if this tutor will still be able to continue lessons once they go back to Japan, I might look at having them get me more used to the JLPT content if we work on certain grammar points etc in the lessons. If they can’t continue with lessons then it’ll be another look at tutors to see what might suit my needs but I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
I seem to be getting on ok atm with how I’m studying. Started on みんなの日本語 blue textbook again though I’m going quite slowly with it, I’m taking only one tutor led lesson a week where about 95% or more is in Japanese unless I am trying to explain or check my understanding of something with the tutor to ensure I understand correctly. I’m doing 1-2 language exchange sessions per week as well. And I’m working through ふらいんぐうぃっち still (almost finished book 11 and there is only one more left after that) but only really using that during work days. On my days off, I’m reading through the book club books; ふしぎ駄菓子屋・銭天堂・ (started last week) and また、同じ夢を見ていた (which I’ve started today by listening to it but will read over the pages again between now and Tuesday).
So far, ふしぎ駄菓子屋・銭天堂・, has been easy enough with the help of the vocabulary list. All the grammar seems to have been stuff I’ve encountered before so has been pretty straight forward even with my vocabulary gaps. I intend to re-read last weeks chapter before starting this weeks chapter tomorrow. I’m quite liking it so far but would struggle without the vocabulary list.
また、同じ夢を見ていた, has been a bit more difficult. I’ve listened to the full first half of the first chapter (ends on page 18, almost half way through) which is slightly longer than the bookclub since the bookclub end point (page 15) was right in the middle of a dialogue, although it stops at the end of a sentence. I had to hear the rest of the dialogue then the audio chapter was only another minute or two long so just finished it. The audiobook seems pretty good so far, there are parts that I understood quite well (I did lower the speed slightly to give me a better chance to follow along since I’m not used to listening and following along as I can’t read to comprehend that quickly in English, never mind Japanese) but most of it, I was only understanding part sentences. I need to read back over it though to understand the parts that I didn’t understand.
I think my reading process is flawed but I know trying to do intensive reading all the time is just going to burn me out again. My biggest issue is not enough vocabulary but learning it out of context or by using flashcards doesn’t work for me, whereas, reading helps. I just can’t seem to read enough to get a decent grasp on the vocabulary.
From the books I’ve read previously, there are words that I might still need to look up the reading of but know the meaning or might recognise the reading even if the meaning is a little vague.
I’m off work on holiday for almost 4 weeks near the end of Feb/ beginning of March, so will be using most of that time to spend studying and reading more (at least that’s the plan, though that never seems to pan out well). I do find that when I do long studying sessions across a short period of time, it does help me boost my learning, (saw this when I blitzed through most of the tadoku free readers across 2 days, as well as the longer study sessions with みんなの日本語 originally, and the longer reading sessions using Zoo and キノの旅) but I haven’t really been able to do that since early 2022 so I’m hoping I can start bringing that back.
Have you tried reading one of the long series by a single author, or (maybe less helpful) books in a particular genre? A while back I read a bunch of the 魔女館 (series) | L23 (not a recommendation, lol, I just had a ton of them I bought at BookOff) all in a row. I’ve found that authors tend to use the same set phrases and verbs especially. I’ve noticed in longer books (250+ pages or so) I will also notice this happening, but reading a ton of books by the same person feels like the best way to get this reinforcement outside of (blah) flashcards.
Hmm, in retrospect I guess it would have been better for me to look for the end of dialogue, and revise the pg count. I’ll have to keep in mind for the upcoming chapters.
Would using the jpdb premade deck for また、同じ help? That’s usually the only time way I can sustain interest in vocab study, since I can literally associate it with sentences I’m reading. Alternately, does writing out unfamiliar/unsteady words (or maybe even the whole sentence) help?
Outside of that, I think it’s just something that slowly gets less worse over a long time
That’s entirely normal, fwiw. I’m part of an 暁のヨナ book club, where we read 1-2 chapters outloud every week, and sometimes strugglate (struggle translate). Despite having read the series in EN & JP already, I still have words I’ve forgotten or only half-recognize.
I plan to do this with キノの旅 light novels as well as the author 乙一 but want to get the bookclub books underway for a bit before adding more books in as I’ve got 3 books I’m actively reading atm (2 for the book clubs and ふらいんぐうぃっち which I’m almost done with).
Grammar is mostly ok, even if I don’t know how to use the stuff I know, I still can recognize it and understand it as long as I know the vocabulary. My downfall is not enough vocab but flashcards and spaced repetition methods outside of reading haven’t worked previously for me.
Please don’t miss understand, I’m not complaining about how the book club is or the way the pages have been split. I just needed to read the full conversation. It’s also why with the other bookclub book I’m considering trying to read full chapters since I work best reading in long stints. I’m happy with the book club and the pace, and grateful that I can join in
I have tried using the flashcards on jpdb or even built anki decks on my android phone a while back but flashcards just get me too overwhelmed to the point I stress out and don’t retain much. With キノの旅 I ended up just keeping a word document with words I was looking up in each chapter then looking back at that for readings/ meanings to try to keep the flow as best I could. There’s words in there I’ve only seen once or twice but remember them yet there are other words where I’ve seen them countless times and still need to look them up each time.
I’ve tried this too but I just end up writing the sentences and not actually learning anything as I go into autopilot. I’m trying to work on that though as I think that’s part of the reason I had to redo みんなの日本語 red textbook more than once. I was looking for patterns and not paying attention to what I was actually writing
I didn’t think you were, but thinking about this did help me with picking the rest of the ending lines
Can definitely relate… I found I have to set jpdb to slower intervals, if I use it at all… and even then, I usually give up after a bit. w/ anki, it theoretically works better, bc I can choose what to add… but still easy to get overwhelmed.
Ohh interesting… I guess cuz writing’s still new to me, I can’t really go on autopilot like that… also I usually say things aloud as I write, which I think helps… what do you mean by looking for patterns? like radicals? grammar?
Being honest, the two prose bookclubs are activating my ‘it’s okay not to understand fully’ brain which hasn’t had a lot of workout since I was very young. I’m reading everything like three times at minimum and probably more, still not fully understanding, and becoming okay with that is part of this process (I hope).
I read aloud before I write and when I think if the answers but usually my writing is textbook answers or answers to questions from one of the quizzes etc. I have tried writing sentences normally but unless I fully understand the vocabulary and grammar I tend to write from the textbook and those usually are using set grammar patterns. E.g. it might give you 4-6 sentences to write but they are all very similar just using slightly different vocabulary so my brain sees what’s similar and just writes it without actually comprehending what I’ve written. The same if I copy sentences, I just see the act of copying and don’t actually comprehend what I’m copying, just whether or not they match.
Grammar patterns mostly or conjugation patterns are the ones I notice most. I still struggle with particles because they change based on the words they act upon. I’m still trying to figure out how they fit the pattern.
I can be ok with just getting the gist of things when I’m reading as well as missing out things because I don’t understand it. I did it with several of the graded books I’ve read as well as with the ミラーさん novels, zoo book 1 and キノの旅 book 1. Each time I read them, I understand more without translating. I just think that if I’m not learning vocabulary with flashcards, I should probably make more effort to learn it from reading though I’m probably reading the wrong sort of stuff for rounded vocabulary.
Maybe you should just lower the number of new cards? Anki now has a fancy FSRS scheduler that is supposed to lower the number of reviews while targeting a specific retention rate that you set.
For example, if you want 70% retention, the algorithm will space things out accordingly, and according to heaps of test data, it’s very accurate with predictions (once you accumulate 1k+ total reviews).
Doing 10 new cards per day while targeting a 70%-80% retention rate should be a breeze, like 10-15 minutes tops.
