My Japanese Reading and studying Experiences - CatDQ

Very true, for me the only way to do that seems to be reading slowly because I couldn’t cope with the number of words I’m missing being added to an SRS program. Hopefully by this time next year I’ll be in a much better space with vocabulary compared to where I am now.

Very good advice. My problem seems to be that in some sentences I only understand very common words or I understand the grammar meaning so need to look up all the unknowns. I have found that over the last few days my recognition is getting better so I remember if I’ve seen it before or I may understand the english and part of the kanji for words that are coming up regularly. It just seems to be the immensely detailed descriptions that are throwing me off but I’ll get there.

Also finding my reading speed is increasing quite quickly. Sunday I was taking about an hour to hour and a half to read a page, now I’m covering 2-3 pages in an hour. So there’s definitely some improvement for me even in that short space of time. I have been spending at least an hour or two at a time when reading with short breaks between each session so I definitely think the longer sessions for me when doing intensive reading is working to my advantage.

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Update 02/04/2023:

What I’ve been up to:

So, I’ve continued working through Kanji from Zero purely because most of it is little games and short tests of memory and recognition as well as stroke order or its writing out the same kanji and compound kanji enough times to remember the stroke order and I can do all this mindlessly between calls when working from home. I’ve also been working through one of the smaller books on connections in Japanese to try to better understand connecting sentences and I can do that between calls in the office or on breaks while still feeling like I’m getting some Japanese into my head every day even if I’m not reading a book.

I’ve also done more of キノの旅 than I expected, especially after struggling so much at the start of chapter 1 with the gun descriptions. However I actually found my reading speed has improved and my kanji recognition is improving much more than expected. All of which is better than I thought it would be and also a bit of a motivation booster since it means I’m not as bad as I thought I was :joy:

Even if I’m not quite sure of the reading, I’m finding that I’m very quickly picking up the English meaning so can understand the overall meaning of the sentence. I’ve found I’m able to read 2-4 pages an hour now depending on how many words I’m struggling with and keeping a running tab on all the words I’m unsure of has helped when trying to look them up again if they turn up several times in the one chapter. I’m now part way through chapter two at this stage and I’ve actually covered more pages than expected and also found I know a lot less words than I thought with around 330-340 unknown words in the first chapter alone.

I have however picked up some words just by reading and looking them up or trying to remember them when I come across them which is certainly helpful and I’ve also found that I have read at least a few pages every day, more on my days off since I’m sitting for several hours a few times a day just reading.

Plans for the coming week:

I’m on a long shift this week due to training so my days off have swapped from Monday/Tuesday to Thursday/Friday this week which means less time for me since Thursday I’m doing stuff with Family and Friday I’m doing stuff with friends so less reading time. Also having to commute into the office every day I’m working over the next few weeks for training which also means longer hours and less time to read (might use the commute to listen to more Gackt and Vivid Bad Squad though or an audiobook).

Main plan is that I’ll continue reading through キノの旅 hopefully getting the second chapter completed this week or getting close to it and continuing with Kanji from Zero while working at home if I can. At least it’s something simple and keeps my mind on my studying which also helps keep me motivated.

I’m toying with the idea of possibly re-reading キノの旅 book 1 again after going through みんなの日本語 blue set of beginner books to see how much I’ve improved and that should also give me time to go through re-reading some other books before going back to it to see my improvement. Not even half finished and already I’m looking at what happens once I’m finished the first read through. :joy:

After my slip in motivation, feeling disheartened and discouraged by my progress the last few months, this week I’m actually feeling in a much better head space thanks to the support and encouragement from the community here. I appreciate all the help and support from everyone as well as the insight and encouragement that’s kept me going. I know I’ve come too far to allow myself to give up on this (it’s been something I’ve wanted to do since I was a really young kid) so no matter how bad it gets or how demotivated I feel, it’s never something I’m going to allow myself to give up on, however the support and encouragement from Natively community has certainly helped my motivation spring back quicker than it would have had I just been struggling on trying to find a new path alone.

Even though I’m not where I expected to be after studying for this long, everyone here has reminded me that it’s not about how quickly I get there or how easy or difficult it is, it’s about looking at the little details, the small improvements here and there, the words and grammar I can recognise now compared to where I was before and the progress I’ve made. That’s the things I need to focus on and if I find myself struggling with something, take a step back, take another look and either find a solution or try something different and see where it leads.

Thank you to everyone here, I really appreciate your help and support. It means a lot to me, especially when I’m not in a great head space and it’s helped me see through the problems to focus on the solution so I can continue forward. :blush:

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Update 09/04/2023:

What I’ve been up to:

This last week has been pretty hectic due to additional training at work and having to work days I wouldn’t normally, then using what little time off I’ve had for family stuff. So all in, I’m pretty pleased with the fact that I’ve managed to read what was left of the second chapter after reading a little more last week than I though I would and I’m around a third of the way through the first キノの旅. I’ve continued to work through Kanji from Zero book 1 at home and also read through Basic connections during breaks at work (though I did manage to finish the second chapter in キノ at my desk before my shift started yesterday morning). I’ve done very little listening and very little writing this week except from Kanji from Zero.

Thoughts so far on progress:

The first chapter I understood better after watching the anime episode and getting a better understanding of whether I was actually understanding what I was reading or not. I do think my understanding would be way lower without the visual context or the English translation I watched to get an idea of what was in the chapter. Chapter 2 was a lot more difficult and I’m not entirely sure that I understood it. I think I may have become a little confused as to who was being referred to but I’ll pick it up hopefully on the second read through after I’ve completed the book since I’ve decided to do a second read through after I’ve finished to see how much I’ve picked up.

I have noticed higher frequency kanji recognition and sometimes knowing the reading but not quite being sure of the meaning or vice versa, becoming more frequent as well. And I’ve noticed it’s getting more accurate as time goes on. My reading speed fluctuates from 10-15 minutes for a page to about 40-60 minutes for a page depending on how many unknown Kanji there are and how well I think I’m understanding it. My unknown words have been pretty high, up around 300-500 per chapter so my lack of vocabulary is definitely a factor but I know it’ll improve with time and practice.

A few compound Kanji I’m recognizing just from the context but a lot of the sentences as a whole still aren’t making full sense to me yet or are easily misunderstood within my head. Things I need to work on are Kanji recognition, expanding my vocabulary and better understanding the grammar I’m coming across. I will improve as time goes on.

Plan for the next week:

The plan for this week is to read chapter 3 which I think is around 15 pages (might be able to get that done before Wednesday if I’m lucky) so I’ll possibly also make a start on chapter 4 as well but we’ll see how things go. Chapter 4 is a beast at 65 pages long so any head start I can get on it is great. Other than that, I’ll continue working through All about particles during breaks at work and I’ll continue working through キノ as well as Kanji from Zero while at home.

On a side note, I’d love to be able to start writing some of this in Japanese but my skill level hasn’t quite reached anywhere near that yet and this year doesn’t seem to be the year for getting speaking practice with feedback so far either.

Shadowing should help with that but I want for the moment to continue to work through キノ as my main source of study while trying to absorb what I can from it before deciding on my next course of action and I’m actually pretty surprised at the fact I’ve been able to focus as I have done even though I’m also training at work at the moment for new skills within my current role. I usually don’t do well if I’m studying at work as well as at home but it seems to be working out ok for now.

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Additional update 10/04/2023:

I don’t usually update this quickly but I wasn’t expecting to finish this chapter so quickly.

What I’ve done since yesterday:

Finished reading that next chapter, at 16 pages I was expecting it to take longer than it did. Mostly I only understood little bits of it at the beginning and at the end but after watching the anime episode I understood it better.

I’m picking up more recognition on compound kanji but my readings are slipping away pretty quickly so I’ll need to try another read through after I finish this (almost half way through now).

I kind of caved and watched the entire rest of the series today on DVD while I was writing out the exercise answers from Kanji from Zero so I know now how most of the rest of the chapters should play out but whether I fully understand while reading is a different story.

What I’ve decided:

I’ve decided that once I’ve finished this I’ll finish whatever is left of Kanji from Zero and I’ll switch back to みんなの日本語 blue set of books and go back to studying a chapter a week while I re-read キノ book 1. Hopefully I’ll see an improvement when reading the second time round and the rest of the chapters in みんなの日本語 should fit into place since I’ve mostly covered the grammar from going through Genki 1 & 2 (since they don’t use the same order as みんなの日本語 does).

I have also ordered a few lower level books but those will take until May/June time due to the delays in getting stuff through customs now or due to the shift in their delivery method. What used to take a week or two is now taking at least 6-8 weeks, sometimes longer so I’m guessing my suppliers have switched from air mail (which is what they used to be stamped as) to surface mail or sending them by boat. Not that I’m short of things to read, just very little is at my level that I can read comfortably while at work (a massive hardback book the size of my pc monitor isn’t going to fit in my bag, never mind be suitable for reading while trying to eat lunch or between calls).

Next steps:

So, plan is to continue with キノ book 1 alongside Kanji from Zero then switch back to みんなの日本語 while re-readingキノ book 1 and see how I get on. I think after みんなの日本語 I’ll take another break from textbooks and focus on reading another book. I’ve got Zoo 1 & 2 to read as well as the other 20 odd キノの旅 light novels before I move onto the next step in my reading journey.

Edits: corrected misspelling and moved this thread to Language Learning category since it’s veering away from mostly my reading experiences and crossing more into my language learning experiences in general.

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Update 17/04/2023:

What I’ve been up to:

Since last Monday, I’ve read about another 30 odd pages of the mega chapter (most are around 40 pages but this one is 65) and I’ve purchased a few more books as well as received some of the ones I’ve been waiting for.

I’ve focused almost all of my free time on reading rather than listening, active textbook study or writing but will probably get a little textbook study across the next few days before going back to work. Still on training so longer days since I have to drive in rather than working from home. It’s difficult to read キノ while at work as I’m unable to look up readings or meanings while at my desk so I’ve been reading All about Particles instead then reading キノ at home.

I’ve not picked up a game in Japanese or watched something since I finished キノの旅 anime last week.

What I’ve noticed:

Mostly, I’ve noticed more of the filler words that crop up and I’ve found my kanji recognition is getting better though sometimes the reading I’ve been showing with the furigana is difficult from the reading I’m shown when looking up the compound kanji though I’m guessing the meaning should still be correct?

Overall plan:

My plan is still to finish キノの旅 book 1 then re-read it while working through みんなの日本語 blue set again so I can finish them this time. I’m unsure if I should continue reading through the rest of the キノの旅 light novels after that or wait until I feel I can understand it mostly before moving on to the next one. There is still the Zoo short story books in this step of the “Learn Japanese by reading” process I’m working through so I have those as an option as well but I think for at work, I will look at the option of re-reading the Read Real Japanese series again and see what improvements I’ve made on those. It can seem a little counter productive by re-reading stuff but I’ve found for me that’s what I need to see improvement and also it helps me to pick up more on details I missed the first time as well as re-exposing me to the same kanji and grammar helps me pick it up better. All of this is my studying process and not what I’m doing just for fun. That’s not to say I’m not enjoying it because I am (mostly) but what I really want to do is get to a stage where I can pick up a book or watch a film etc like I do in English and understand most if not all of it. I also want to be able to communicate both in speaking and in writing but those are kind of on the back burner for now.

Plans for this week and overall thoughts:

Plans for this week are just to continue reading through キノ, hopefully finishing this chapter then continuing to work through it til I’m done. There are only 2 more chapters and the epilogue after this so another few weeks and I’ll be finished it. I’ve got 5 more chapters of Kanji from Zero to complete as well but those won’t take too long to complete.

All in, I’m pretty impressed with how much I’ve covered in only a few weeks even though I’m not understanding 100% (probably close to 50-60% if I’m honest) it’s still a massive improvement on what I was doing before and I know it will improve more with time and experience.

Possible options for further reading alongside my original plan:

I’m looking at a few of the Kadowaka Tsubasa bunko’s, mostly for the fact they have the furigana so it makes it easier to read at work even if I’m not understanding the meaning, I can at least read through it then look stuff up later or might pick up its a word I know because I know the sound even if I’m unsure of the kanji. The ones I’ve been looking at are either same or lower level than キノ and I already roughly know the story from the anime (though I did watch them in Japanese without subs so I could be understanding the opposite of what’s really going on).

It’s difficult trying to get specific printings of books because all of my books come through Amazon UK and even if you have the correct isbn there’s no guarantee that the seller has that version of the book, especially if it gives you an option for a hardcover or paperback (so far I’ve had about 6 hardcovers of the 20 I’ve ordered, the rest came as a paperback version) so it’s a little hit or miss and there doesn’t seem to be anywhere nearby that sells Japanese books in a physical store. Most of my books are second hand and I know places like e-bay can sell stuff as well as charity shops but if I go down the e-bay rabbit hole, there’s no coming back for me :joy: so Amazon it is.

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As a fellow UK Japanese learner, it’s tough finding books, especially if you want a specific printing! You may be aware that the big Foyles on Charing Cross Road in London does stock Japanese novels, it’s the only physical place I’ve found them. Agreed that Amazon UK is random, I managed to get Amazon JP working for me so that has been good. There is also this second hand site, which has completely variable stock but cheap (!) Japanese books Books - Japanese second-hand bookshop (orange-design.uk)

Curious about the furigana/kanji issue. Sometimes there’s more than one kanji compound used for the same word, could that be the issue? Also sometimes you do just get completely different pronunciations, like furusato/kokyou have the same meaning and same kanji. I am not knowledgable enough to interpret why :sweat_smile:

Anyway, as always I am impressed by your perseverance. Good luck!

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Do you have any examples of this, out of curiosity?

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Yeah, there doesn’t seem to be any near me though London is a bit of a trek (approx 400-450 miles away) I may be in the area at some point so I’ll keep that place in mind. :blush:

Do you get physical books from Amazon.jp? If so, how do you find the postage and prices compare? Most of the books I get from UK Amazon are free post.

I’ll check that site out, thanks. I wasn’t aware of that one.

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I’ve not got any specific examples from キノ as I’ve not been keeping a note of the differences but it seems to be that they are written in kunyomi for the furigana in the book but onyomi for the compound kanji when searching deepL or searching Kanji lookup.

I have seen that before in the song from Princess Kaguya. They read it out in kunyomi for the compound kanji for the waterwheel but the lyrics I found online for the nursery rhyme have them in the onyomi instead. Wasn’t sure if this was a typo back then but in キノ I’ve found about a half dozen or so but only really started noticing it more this last week.

I’ll see if I can find them and post them. So far if it’s showing different then I’ve just tried to find the closest meaning to what might make sense in the context and moved on.

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I find physical books off Amazon JP work out best if I buy them as a bundle on account of a flat shipping fee. The price is usually 670-770 JPY for paperbacks (so about five pounds) and then the shipping was about 1400 JPY or 10-11 pounds. I tend to buy several books as once, as the shipping didn’t vary much according to how many books I get, so it works out better the more you buy. I have occasionally got bargains on Japanese books on ebay or abebooks, but my preferred method is just a bulk order from amazon jp once in a while. I just looked in my cart and it seems the shipping might have got more expensive since last year though, it’s quoting me 3000 JPY for my current cart :melting_face:

Foyles in London has the advantage for me that it is close by and I can actually open up the books and look inside, but there is usually a massive mark up (saw a 600 JPY book going for 20 pounds) so amazon jp bulk order is usually my best choice.

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Thanks, I’ll need to see if I can set up an amazon.jp account as my UK one doesn’t work on Amazon.jp and I couldn’t set up an account previously (kept getting issues when trying) then I can always check the books and shipping between there and Amazon UK and see which would be cheaper. I have seen a lot on e-bay but generally it’s been bulk lots of random books and I’m not sure what they all are, that and if I start purchasing on e-bay I’m probably going to end up buying too much and spending more than I have :joy:

I’ve had a look at that site you linked above, seems very well priced and delivery isn’t too bad. Stock seems limited but that’s totally understandable with second hand books so I was expecting that but did find a few to buy :joy: will keep an eye on it to see how regularly new books get added.

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This is pretty common, basically the furigana is showing how it’s pronounced and the kanji is showing what is actually meant.

Sometimes it’s because the character says one thing but means another thing. This kind of thing happens a ton in the manga 極主夫道, so I’ll give an example from that. The protagonist often just says 白い粉 (white powder) when he means things like 砂糖 (sugar) or 小麦粉 (flour). When this happens, it looks like this: 砂糖白い粉
. (this is an example off the top of my head, so some exact words might be wrong, but you get the idea)

Sometimes it’s for worldbuilding reasons. For example in the Zelda manga, there’s the word 黄金の聖三角 (golden holy triangles), but the furigana is トライフォース (triforce), which is obviously not how 黄金の聖三角 is pronounced. But what 黄金の聖三角トライフォース is saying is that it’s pronounced トライフォース but means 黄金の聖三角.

So when trying to figure out what the word means, look at the kanji, not the furigana

With your waterwheel example, idk the exact situation since I don’t know the song, but I’d assume they have the compound kanji for waterwheel so you know what they mean, but when actually singing you pronounce it with kunyomi.

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Not sure if I’m understanding you correctly but I think what you’re talking about is different from what I’m seeing in this. I can understand why they may have katakana above them or other kanji to give you the meaning behind the characters words or for world building purposes but the one’s I’m referring to that I’ve seen (I’ve not yet looked back to get the exact words) they are all being used during descriptions only and the readings do not match the kanji but are only in furigana, there’s no kanji or katakana above them. The kanji meanings seem to match the context but the furigana doesn’t seem to be what that word is.

Sometimes the furigana don’t even match possible readings for those kanji (that I can find), sometimes they do but as compound kanji I can’t see those readings matching no matter what I’m using (voice to text, typing or drawing the kanji and cycling through the possible options for the meanings). That’s not to say that it’s incorrect readings, I don’t know if it’s correct or not because I don’t have the knowledge to make that assumption (and probably never will have :sweat_smile:).

The princess kaguya one is 水車 which is said in the anime as みずぐるま but written in the lyrics as すいしゃ, I think it can be read both ways and both do seem to work if doing voice to text but these ones in Kino didn’t do that which is why I was a little confused by them.

It’s probably best if I take a note when I next come across them so I can then see if anyone can shed some light on this so I’m not as confused :joy:

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Based on what you’ve said I still think we are talking about the same thing? But I might have just not explained it well. Or maybe I’m completely misunderstanding lol. I’d have to see an example from the book to tell.

My examples had kanji and katakana for the furigana, but it also happens with hiragana (looks like regular furigana but has a different reading than what the word should have). It’s the same idea though. And it’s not something that only happens with dialogue, it happens with descriptions too.

Not sure what’s going on with the Princess Kaguya one though.

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Could just be me since the majority of my Japanese exposure has been to textbook Japanese so far.

I found one just now, same kanji but different furigana on one and it shows different in deepL and kanji lookup.

前王

One use reads as まえおう in deepL/Kanji lookup (checked that as there was no furigana in the book for that one) and the other reads as ぜんおう in the book but as the first reading on deepL/kanji look up.

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Ah ok, I was misunderstanding you, sorry about that. In that situation that’s just the reading of the word. 前王 is usually ぜんのう but can also be ぜんおう.

image

Since there was no furigana for the one deepL said was まえおう, I’d just assume that’s supposed to be read as ぜんおう too since as far as I can tell まえおう isn’t a reading of 前王. Can’t find it on Jisho or in a JP dictionary. But to be fair I only looked for a few minutes.

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No worries, I’m not great at explaining things I don’t fully understand so that’s probably my fault not explaining great.

Thanks for clearing that up. Looks like I may need an alternative/better method for looking stuff up then if deepL and Kanji lookup are giving possible incorrect readings :sweat_smile:

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Yeah, it seems like they’re giving you the wrong readings. I wonder if it’s parsing it by just the kanji and not the whole word? Like they think it’s two words (前 and 王) instead of the word 前王.

If I don’t know the reading of a word, I just look up the word in Jisho and see what readings they give me.

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If I may suggest, I like using an app called takoboto for lookups. You can create lists so you can see what words you’ve looked up before, the radical searching for kanji is pretty good and I find the definitions line up with jisho.org
I am definitely not sponsored or affiliated, it’s just the app I found best for lookups when reading :sweat_smile:

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Thanks, it sounds similar to what I can do with Kanji lookup but takoboto isn’t on iOS so I may need to grab my old android to use it. Might be an idea though. :slightly_smiling_face:

Does it need wifi to work or does it allow offline translations?