My Japanese Reading and studying Experiences - CatDQ

[CatDQ]

@FredKore

there’s so many things that work differently that it really helps to have someone (tutor or forums)

Yeah, I was hoping to get a tutor this year but unfortunately home repairs got in the way. I’m hoping this will improve on that by the end of the year so that hopefully next year I can look at getting a tutor. The speaking class I was looking at as well isn’t being taught this year but they’re going to e-mail me when they have it available. I was hoping either a 1 on 1 tutor or a small class which allows me to work on my speaking and writing skills would help since my work would be getting checked and I’d be able to ask where it’s wrong and why so I can adjust but hopefully next year this’ll go ahead.

@eefara

Good luck! I can’t wait to hear how it goes! Don’t be discouraged if you start really slow; this might end up being a long project, but you’ll be getting a ton of benefit from it, even if it’s not obvious at first.

Thanks, I’m going to start by going through the first chapter a few times (once to read through without look ups, once with look ups then again after to see how much I understand) then see how that goes. I’m just going to work through it til it’s done regardless of how long it takes.

[Legato]

@CatDQ

but I found them difficult to navigate and, for me, near impossible to find the info I was looking for without trawling through hundreds of comments.

There are three things that might help here. Maybe you tried them already and they didn’t work, and if so, apologies! I promise I’m not getting commision from WK

• While the Absolute Beginner Book Clubs are usually really big and actually have hundreds of comments, the Beginner Book Club and later usually has considerably less (e.g. 神さまがまちガえる | Week 2 Discussion - Book Clubs - WaniKani Community).

• Many book clubs ask their participants to a) use [details=Page 56] dropdowns, so it’s slightly easier to find all page X questions/answwers by scrolling through it, but more importantly they b) want their participants to type out the sentence that they are asking for! That means we can use the “in this thread” forum search to find questions/answers in seconds:

How to search a book club thread

1. Enter text and click on “in this topic”:
   
2. Click through the few results:
   
3. Check the replies when you found your question:
   
   

…and if nobody has asked your question yet, you can usually ask questions on clubs that are years old, and you will still get an answer surprisingly quickly!

• The number of comments is usually less overwhelming while the club is actually going on, and participating in a live book club is much more fun anyway. (Two book clubs that are starting in May are ロジカとラッカセイ @ L21, and Ouran High School Host Club @ L27.)

@CatDQ

I found the physical graded readers I have easier because most pre-empt the questions you might have on the grammar and most give a short vocabulary list for unusual vocabulary used so I could use that to work out the meaning. Some of them, like the ミラーさん novels are full japanese with no English and no vocabulary or grammar lists and there are a few others that are native level stories but the grammar is broken down into manageable chunks.

One of the best parts about book clubs is that they have given me a decent training for being able to look up grammar myself (since I didn’t want to ask about everything, and I only want to use the threads if I really can’t figure something out). I guess from your description that’s similar to what you probably had to do in those “no grammar list” graded readers though.

Another part that helps me is reading digitally, since I can easily look up vocab (and occasionally even grammar) with mouse-over via Yomichan browser plugins, or copy&paste sentences into https://ichi.moe to see a breakdown (or as a last resort into DeepL to get a hint of what I might be missing re: vocab/grammar). It might feel a bit like cheating, but I’m most definitely learning and getting better.

(I love physical books, but since they make look-ups much harder, I only read easier stuff there. E.g. with tools I can read in the L24 range, but for now I’m only reading ~L18 and below in physical form.)

[CatDQ]

Thanks, I did only look at the absolute beginner book club and the intermediate one (for Kino) but didn’t know about this so that would make it easier, I’ll take another look at that.

Reading along with a book club would be helpful but with the backlog I’ve got, I don’t want to purchase any more books and most of mine are above the levels of the beginner and lower intermediate books so I’d most likely fall behind pretty quickly if trying to read along side them but I’ll check those incase it’s one of my e-books though most of them are upper intermediate/ advanced unless they are graded readers

Looking stuff up for physical copies tends to be ok for me though it’s difficult to do so at work. DeepL is good but I find I usually need to draw the kanji elsewhere then copy and paste it (unless there is furigana or I know it already). Looking stuff up at work it’s more a time restriction rather than an issue finding it. I feel that I get more out of what I’m reading if I can cover at least 3-4 pages in one sitting (more is better but that’s the minimum) so stopping after a page or two to go back after a break usually means I need to re read it again and re look up all that info when I next pick it up.

I may need to invest in some more lower level books to be able to read them at work. Thanks for the suggestions, I’ll look through them and see if any help out

[Legato]

@CatDQ

Reading along with a book club would be helpful but with the backlog I’ve got, I don’t want to purchase any more books and most of mine are above the levels of the beginner and lower intermediate books so I’d most likely fall behind pretty quickly if trying to read along side them

There’s no shame in getting new books if those in the backlog are too hard - they’ll still be there once you’re getting better, and for the time being you might have a much better time (and learn more) with easier ones.

But either way, good luck!

[obscureniche]

@Legato

and Ouran High School Host Club @ L27.)

Ooh I didn’t know about this one, thanks for pointing it out. Maybe I’ll join it too.

[CatDQ]

@Legato

There’s no shame in getting new books if those in the backlog are too hard

It’s more a case of finances not permitting more books I’ll see what happens though

[eefara]

You could always potentially set up your own one-off book club as well here, if you already own book X and really want to go through with with group resources. It’s pretty easy to get participation on WK, though you might want to poll first here to see who might join you.

[Jintor]

Not to hijack cat’s topic but I might well join one of those book clubs. I was always intimidated out of it by the time factor (and difficulty - Kiki’s as the second absolutely beginner book was insane imho)

[TeapotToTortoise]

@CatDQ

My reading and listening are improving and I can see results in that, they just aren’t where I expected or want them to be almost 3 years on.

Just wanted to echo that this is how I felt for a long time (and to an extent still do). I never even finished a novel until around 7 years into my studies. I’m now in year 8 and finished ~10 books in the past year including a few Kino no Tabi light novels. Granted, I only study/immerse for an hour or so per day, but it still took a long time! Anyway, just wanted you to be sure to be proud of how far you’ve come so far and keep on going!

[CatDQ]

Update 26/03/2023:
Apologies in advance, this is a long one and I’ve not split it into sections like I usually do

Spent the last week finishing off the Genki 2 workbook kanji section. I gave up on the first section after 40 odd pages due to how I was feeling last weekend and also how much it was dragging me down so picked it up again from page 109 for the kanji reading and writing sections since I can always have more Kanji practice and it kept me feeling I was still doing something to study. I finished it but didn’t want to start キノの旅 again until today (more on that below) so instead I started working through Kanji from Zero book 1 (almost half way through now) because it’s mostly writing and kanji recognition which will help me in the long run and it also gives me some more practice in context without being too taxing and I can do it between calls when working from home without having problems trying to remember what the rest of a sentence was before the call came through.

When I’m feeling disheartened, I try to find a way to continue doing something in the way of studying but something that isn’t going to make me feel worse or cause burn out so I don’t give up.

I’ve wanted to learn Japanese since primary school where I became fascinated by how different it was to English. Since I’ve found decent resources for learning it as an adult, I don’t want to give up on it. I do enjoy it, both the learning process (mostly) as well as the progress I can see that I’ve made, even if it’s not where I want to be. It’s still progress and it’s still a step ahead of where I was yesterday or even this time last year. Focus on the positives and the progress made as well as the journey and not the end point. Patience is a must, and I need to remember that.

I’ll continue working through Kanji from Zero then probably work through the Japanese from Zero books while I’m working from home (purely to keep motivation going and break up the monotony of calls while still keeping my writing skills in check and possibly increase my kanji recognition) but when not working, my main focus is going to be working through キノの旅 book 1 as eefara suggested. So that gives me 2 half days and 2 full days a week to focus on キノの旅 (minus time for any appointments etc). I’m hoping to be able to read a chapter a week but might get through less depending on how it goes. Hoping a chapter a week isn’t too ambitious though the prologue and epilogue I’m going to read along side their closest chapters.

My plan is to watch the episode in the series if there is one for the chapter first (in English then Japanese), then read through the chapter (completely or in sections, not quite sure yet) looking up words only when I don’t know the reading so I can read through even if I don’t understand (not all the kanji have furigana). A second read through with looking up every word meaning I don’t know or grammar pattern I don’t understand, then a third read through trying to understand it as I’m reading. Probably not the best plan but I’ll see how it goes.

I’ve started to use this with the prologue today, though I read it right through and not in sections just because it’s not too long and I’ve read it before. I did notice I was looking up less meanings for the furigana-less kanji this time even on my first read through though not sure if that’s from practicing writing kanji or just because I recognize then from reading it before. I’ve also taken a note of all the vocabulary I didn’t know but most of the grammar is stuff I’ve covered before or could figure out in context.

I’ll wait til after dinner before starting chapter one and hopefully have that completed this week so I can start on chapter two next week. Thinking I may add an additional post on here that I can edit after reading each chapter so I keep a note of the gist of what I’ve read each time. Might help me keep track.

I think this will keep me busy for a while though there’s only 8 chapters including the prologue and epilogue. I think after completing it I will look at trying to read it right though again and see how much I remember/ have picked up.

———————————————————————————————————————

Edit: Addition to update 26/03/2023:

Already thinking this isn’t going to work the way I planned, so changing to intensive reading first then re-reading to try to remember what I’ve read with the help from the vocabulary and grammar I’ve picked up during the intensive reading process.

The prologue was fine but mostly because I understood it from before. The first chapter is a different story but that may be because of the detailed explanations of things I know nothing about. I can understand it with the help of the vocabulary look ups though. Hopefully it’ll be easier next time round but I think a week for a chapter may be over ambitious with how I’m planning to do this if I don’t want to burn out.

We’ll see.

[FredKore]

@CatDQ

Already thinking this isn’t going to work the way I planned,

I feel this. I find that everytime I come up with a new plan of study, it takes me 2 or 3 weeks of constant tweaking to find my new groove.

[CatDQ]

Yeah, my other study methods seem to work fine for the text books now though I do tweak things every so often, but trying intensive reading with not enough vocabulary under my belt is a killer I’ve read the first chapter of this before so thought reading it intensively might mean I’d take twice as long or maybe a bit more. I didn’t expect it to be as time consuming as it is.

Granted last time I wasn’t writing down the vocabulary but typing it out and using dictation I thought it would go smoothly, or at least a little quicker than it is. Think a week is highly optimistic for one chapter without burning out, unless it’s just this section that is more intense than the rest of the chapter.

Hoping it’s just this section

[eefara]

So I will say, from what I remember of Kino 1, the author is big on descriptions of setting; they do a great job putting you in the moment and place, but it can lead to a lot of lookups for comparatively not much gain depending on your vocab level (oh, I just spent an hour working on this paragraph only to be told that it’s a hilly country? can be demoralizing.)

Depending on your reading ability, it might be worthwhile to “skim” a bit to jump from event to event. “Oh, so the chapter’s starting, Kino’s traveling down the road… There’s a lot of vocab I don’t know. I’ll go through, looking up maybe a word or two per sentence or so. Okay, next paragraph… There’s the word 都市; let’s get my bearings here, start looking up stuff intensively again to set the scene.”

Maybe something like that? Might not work well, granted, depending on how much you’re able to grab looking up stuff less frequently. I would definitely say though, not to be afraid to be okay with broad strokes of information. Intensive learning is crazy useful, but it’s also incredibly draining, especially with an actual book you’re going through. You’ll be picking up plenty of new stuff to learn regardless, so don’t be afraid to conserve energy where you can.

I will say I’m a big fan of your idea to watch an episode with the chapter. Not only can you use that as an aid for your reading, but it’s also experience points towards your listening as well.

[CatDQ]

I thought it might be just this part with the weapon description, I was ok for the first bit before then as well as the prologue and wasn’t looking up as much. If I remember correctly, when I read it last time I did kinda skim this bit til I got to the town and understood most of that but got a bit confused with the explanations from the guys past when they meet him and have a cuppa and chat about the country. Trying to keep spoilers to a minimum incase anyone reads this but hasn’t read the book yet and still wants to.

I’ll see how it goes but since I’m only doing it at home and taking note of all the vocabulary I don’t know, I think it’ll take me longer than I first expected. Might take two weeks per chapter

I can’t remember where I got the idea from but someone else suggested it to me so I thought it might help me understand what to expect for those specific chapters and give me a little listening practice for some of the vocabulary used.

[eefara]

@CatDQ

I thought it might be just this part

If you need to as well, you could always post sections here you’re having trouble with and we could try to help break things down.

[CatDQ]

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. Much appreciated.

I’ve read some more today and found most of the bit after that part to be much easier. I’ve been keeping a note of the vocabulary and kanji readings I’m unsure of so that is making things a bit easier for looking up the repeat words so far. Google translate for drawing kanji and deepL for double checking the meanings, and Evernote for keeping the list since it allows dictation in Japanese and English for notes.

I think the longer reading sessions are helping as well because I’ve not got only a 25-30 minute break to go through it so I’m holding more of the images in my head while reading.

[Wakaman]

I read the first 10 Kino no Tabi books.

When I first started to read them, I found them very hard. And I actually put them on pause and read the first 3 Harry Potter Books instead. Because Harry Potter is a translation the sentences are long but are very close to textbook Japanese.

I eventually got very used to the Kino no Tabi author’s writing style and could tear through them really fast. While some people talk about how good they are for beginners, I think the L29 score on this site is about right. They are harder than books for kids, but also harder than easier light novels.

The sentences are short, but the writing is very Japanese. The difficulty between stories changes a lot. And some of the stories are related to others (or even direct sequels or prequels), but the author doesn’t tell you and you just have to figure it out. The stories are also told out of order, and again the writer doesn’t tell you if the story is something that occurred more recently or farther in the past. Some of the stories also don’t have a strong ending and sometimes it can be a little hard to figure out what the author wanted to show.

I don’t have any advice, but I can relate to having struggles with them.

[CatDQ]

Thanks for the insight I actually have the 7 Harry Potter books in Japanese ebook and audio book format and listen to them every so often. I have tried reading those (granted it was a while ago) but struggled at the time. I will try to read them again at some point, currently watching the films, but in English.

Unfortunately all the kids books or books that should be easier than Kino that I have are all higher level on natively except a few of the manga and Ghibli books but I want to read books and short stories atm I think that’s because it’s what I’m used to with the graded readers I’ve been using.

I think my biggest problem with them isn’t the grammar, but my lack of vocabulary, in 9 pages there is approximately 110 words I don’t know at all and around 40 words I thought Iknew or I only knew the English of. Once I’ve looked up the vocabulary, I’ve been able to figure out what the sentence is (double checking a few of the more complex ones with DeepL).

I have found some of the intense descriptions a little overwhelming when it’s talking about something I’ve not come across before but otherwise whae been easier than expected.

[Jintor]

I think the vocab exhaustion stuff is very real. I’m finding it with trying to go with manga about 4-5 levels above where I’m comfortable atm, it’s quite difficult when you have to look up every second word. (Even for books that are ‘at my level’ in terms of grammatical complexity simply not knowing words is a huge bummer and makes them a real pain to engage with)

Only solution seems to be to chip away at it… hopefully I can look back in a year and it’s a lot easier.

[SophieShiori]

Vocabulary is tough - I have a rule where I don’t force myself to check every unfamiliar word while reading, but if I keep seeing it or it’s blocking my understanding then I look it up. I only add to Anki if it’s at my target JLPT level or below on jisho.org (I’m aiming for N2, so I don’t add any N1 words). I also keep a list of all the words I have looked up on my dictionary app so I know I don’t need to check them again. This helps keep it manageable! And while progress feels slow in the moment, you’ll look back and be amazed at how the little efforts have added up. Good luck and keep going, you’re doing amazing.