Kind of a short update this time. Time is lacking and my motivation has ebbed due to being unable to study for 4 days then trying to catch up again.
What I’ve been up to and how I’m feeling:
With being away for a few days last week I had very little chance to do any studying. Think I completed another section of Genki 2 and started another one today (section 19). I tried reading while away but it’s difficult when the room mate refuses to give you five minutes peace or they have the TV blaring loud (even if you’ve asked them to keep it down). So yeah, not much in the way of productive studying and not much reading either.
I also feel like the lack of focus atm (due to other problems) isn’t helping my motivation and I’m feeling unsettled again which could be part of everything else that’s happening or could be just because I’m feeling slightly off about not studying or reading like I planned.
Plans for this week:
My schedule is kind of up in the air atm until I find out what’s happening at work so I can’t plan much passed this week until I can get confirmation on what’s happening. Unsettled and lacking motivation is not a good combination.
My plans for this week will be to continue and try to complete a few more sections of Genki 2 as well as try to get back into reading and seeing where that takes me.
Additional thoughts:
Still waiting on a few books arriving but my Tales of Versperia manga have arrived so I may try reading through those unless I find motivation in something else first. Also considering re reading the Olly richards “in 30 days” series to see what I’ve improved on and see if it helps my motivation.
Well this last week hasn’t gone to plan. Although I’ve read/ worked through another section of Genki 2, and read another part of にゃんにゃん探偵団 I’ve not done a lot this week. Other issues have cropped up in other aspects of my life which have meant I’ve been unable to work through my studying. The joys of being an adult, .
Plan for the next week:
This next week, I intend to fix that by completing the first half of Genki 2 (another 3 and a half sections), make a start on the second half of it and also complete にゃんにゃん探偵団 if possible. I also want to start working through Paul Noble’s Japanese course by doing a section or two a day to work in some speaking since the course I want to do isn’t taking people on at the moment until further notice.
Things still to come:
I’m still waiting on some of my books arriving so what I’ve decided is to continue with the second にゃんにゃん探偵団 book after I complete the first, then continue re-reading through the Read Real Japanese books. I’m still not quite ready to switch back to キノの旅 since other issues have prevented me from getting my studying done and so I’ve been unable to work more on my intensive reading with it. I will get back to it once I’m more confident though it may be a book I’m only reading as and when I’m at home able to study it intensively instead of reading it extensively for fun at the moment.
Updating early as I’ll be too busy over the next few days and I don’t want to take tome away from my studying to update this since sometimes it takes me too long to write stuff.
What I’ve been upto:
The last few days I’ve completed the first part of Genki 2 and now I’m working through the reading and writing sections. Hoping to have those finished by the end of the week since I only have 8 left.
I’ve kind of fallen by the way side trying to read so instead I’ve picked up Pokémon Scarlet and Violet to play through since it gives you the option of language at the start and I’m figuring out what other switch games I’ve got with Japanese if I change the console language. I felt that since it’s text based then it should help me reading and should be low enough level that I can understand most of it even with the additional specialised vocabulary. I’ve played enough Pokémon games to know the gist of what’s going on though this set does have some added extras that are completely new to the franchise.
Plans for the next week:
The plan for this week is to continue with Genki 2 textbook, hopefully finishing that by the end of the week so I can start on the work book then go back to みんなの日本語 so I can complete that. Kind of unsure if I should be then working through the next set of textbooks I have or if I should work on something else that uses the stuff I’ve learned so far but in a different format like listening or shadowing etc. so that I get more practice with it.
Changes to the plan:
Unfortunately the money I had put aside for a tutor and for the online speaking courses has been used for household repairs so that’s kind of on hold for the moment. We’ll see what happens further down the line, hopefully I’ll be able to sort something out in the future, fingers crossed.
I’m not sure what I should look at first after みんなの日本語 beginner set. I’ve a fair number of options depending on what I want to learn but not sure if I should continue with the intermediate level textbooks that continue on from what I’ve used so far or if I should continue reviewing the basics so I have a better grasp of them while continuing to read and increase my vocabulary and kanji recognition. It’ll be a while before I get to where I need to decide so I’ve plenty of time to think it over.
We’ll see how it goes.
The last week I’ve completed Genki 2 textbook and I’m now working through the first section of the workbook, the second section it a lot shorter than the first workbook but still covers off the kanji and a little bit of writing practice. I’ve also watched Spirited away and found I was recognizing more words and phrases and could understand a lot more than previously. I have seen it in English so know the story but I was surprised how much I was understanding just from listening (I watch without subtitles as I struggle to read and listen at the same time). And I’m continuing still with Pokémon Scarlet as well.
Reading is kind of in fits and starts atm. Reading at home tends to only be from the textbooks/ workbooks and from Pokémon Scarlet. And reading at work is from the short story chapter books I’ve got. I’m considering re-starting Folktales and Short stories before moving back onto the Read Real Japanese set. Mostly to see how much I’ve picked up but also because it’s helpful for me to re-read certain books to be exposed to the language again while knowing the rough story.
Next steps:
After completing Genki 2 workbook, I’m heading back to MNN blue set and working back through those to get passed the wall I hit before starting Genki. I’m hoping I’ll have Genki 2 workbook completed over the next few weeks since after that I’m on training at work and will be working from the office so means less time for studying due to commute times.
Thoughts on how to progress:
I’m considering starting up with the shadowing textbook’s I’ve got but thinking I should probably try going through Paul Noble’s speaking courses first as a way of getting some practice thinking what to say and why, that’s kind of my alternative to the speaking lessons I was going to be taking and it was free with audible credits so seem like a decent trade off to begin speaking. We’ll see how it goes.
One thing I’ve noticed since going over Genki is that although I see some improvements, I don’t work well switching back and forth between English and Japanese. As silly as it sounds, it takes longer for me to understand and focus, it tires me out, confuses and frustrates me and also makes me less likely to understand the sentence without translating into English, even if it’s a simple sentence and I know what it is. My brain seems to always go for the easy way out and if English is present then it doesn’t like switching over to understand Japanese. Knowing that, I think once I’m done with MNN blue book set, I’ll be switching over to the chyuukyuu set and the other Japanese only resources I have available since I feel like I get more of a result from that kind of immersion even though I’m self-studying.
Challenging thoughts:
My reading and listening are improving and I can see results in that, they just aren’t where I expected or want them to be almost 3 years on. I’ve had some hiccups and time where I’ve been unable to study or been unable to focus but I feel like I should be at a higher level than I currently am.
Every so often I’ll take an online uni course entrance test or I’ll complete one of the previous JLPT tests I have on my apps and find things are better than where they were before but I still don’t feel like I’m the level they advise (last placement text advised upper intermediate yet I’m still struggling with low level stuff on Natively). I get these tests are just a general guide but it’s a little disheartening to see others doing so much better with less time for studying yet I’m still trailing behind where I feel I should be. I understand everyone learns at a different rate and that’s ok, but knowing that and telling yourself that and believing it are two very different things
I’m not giving up, not after this long spent learning, and I’m not going to change my mind on that regardless of how difficult it gets or how disheartened I feel about that progress, but I wish I really knew how to speed up my retention and keep the pace for progressing instead of having to drop back and redo stuff I’ve already done several times. If I ever learn what that secret is, I’ll be sure to pass it on.
Ultimate end goal is to have it able to be used as a second language.
Current goals are to be able to use my knowledge to understand the gist of native level content in reading and listening while increasing my speaking and writing skills to be able to hold a decent conversation and be able to communicate my thoughts and ideas to be understood by others.
Knowing that it’s highly unlikely I’ll ever reach native level, I still want to get as close as I can to it so that I can be understood by native speakers/ readers and can understand them in return.
I really think this is just a trick of the internet. It only seems like everyone knows so much more than you or is doing better. People only really talk about their learning journey when they’re doing well or have big study plans. Whether or not they actually keep up that enthusiasm all the time is a whole different story. They also probably aren’t actually understanding content to the extent that they (and you) think they are.
Don’t sweat feeling like you’re behind where you “should be”. There’s no where you should or shouldn’t be by now with your studies. That’s something I had to remind myself recently, since I feel like I’ve plateaued in my own studies. I think the hardest part of learning Japanese is actually learning to be patient with yourself. So don’t worry, you’re doing just fine.
I just feel that after almost 3 years of continuous study (there have been a few weeks throughout where I’ve struggled so either revisited old content or used that time for kanji writing and vocabulary recognition) I expected to be further along. By this point, I expected I’d be able to read books and listen to content aimed at kids around age 8 or so and be able to understand most of it but that’s not the case.
There are times where I can understand the gist of sections of content but miss important parts due to not knowing the vocabulary or grammar.
I just need more patience with myself and more practice to get to where I want to be.
The other thing to note is that exams are not the same as being able to read/speak/interact generally. I passed N3 (by the skin of my teeth admittedly) many, many moons ago, but it was only really this December I sat up and thought to myself ‘hey, wait a minute, I still can’t read for shit’ and began taking active steps to try and rectify that.
Also Japanese stuff aimed at kids is so wildly varying in difficulty level. Even though it’s ‘easier’ when they take out the kanji (it’s not) they are still often using words that a Japanese kid will have been hearing all their lives so far, whereas for us non-native learners it will often be our first time encountering that word and it totally just throws us off.
Remember, the average Japanese 8 year old has 8 years of full-on immersion compared to learners. That’s a ridiculous time advantage. There’s tricks we can use to close the gap but quantity has a quality all of its own. Don’t beat yourself up too hard.
Learning something is all about 1.) aptitude 2.) time 3.) strategy. I have 0 aptitude for talking. Like, genuinely, it’s even my weakest point in my native language but my brain kinda digs grammar. So, personally, I pick up grammar fairly quickly and the rest is a constant uphill battle. And the rest is all about using your time as efficiently as possible for you personally.
I don’t know if you play an instrument, but many people make the mistake of playing a piece until they encounter a mistake and then they restart from the beginning. This ends with ppl playing the first few bars 100 times and the last few bars only a couple of times. It’s imporant to focus on the parts that we struggle with the most, because that’s where we have the most to gain.
So, understanding how you study best and understanding where to put most of your effort, will give you the most gains in the shortest period of time. But it will still take time.
Or, like me, you know all that and still don’t do what you should be doing and stagnate for months, because hours of looking up stuff and anki just kills all the joy.
In the end, I am still doing so much better than all the people who only know their native language, so I am not beating myself up. I’ll get there eventually.
That’s very true. I just thought after 8 months of reading through various graded readers and short story books for learners, I’d be able to read and understand more than I currently can but you make a very valid point.
I do see little improvements when I’m reading and listening but it’s not a lot (or doesn’t seem to be a lot). Maybe I need to look at my approach to reading and change that to see if it affects things positively.
That makes sense, my aptitude seem to be for puzzles and problem solving but I need a little knowledge on the subject before I can switch to trying to solve the problem. Speaking wouldn’t be an issue if I could have someone to talk to in Japanese (one of the pitfalls of self study) but even that’s out of reach atm til I can get a tutor which is unlikely to happen this year.
Maybe my strategy is off for how I’m studying but not knowing how to fix that when this is the first language I’ve self studied doesn’t help. I know my weaknesses are vocabulary, particles and grammar but I think that’s mostly because I’ve not got enough experience with the language and I’m still learning it.
I couldn’t deal with flashcard learning for grammar or vocabulary but I use it to support my kanji recognition and readings. I found it wasn’t even helpful for me picking up hiragana with flash cards so I switched to writing them which helped. Vocabulary I’ve found I pick up best through usage. Grammar is the same, though I’ll study it through the textbooks, I find it doesn’t stick until I’ve practiced with it multiple times.
Yep, totally seconded. The internet is basically one enormous illusion that has the side effect of making you feel worthless when looking at other’s achievements. For what it’s worth, @CatDQ, I am constantly impressed by your drive and studying; I wish I had been half as disciplined as you when I was first starting out. Every time I see one of your updates, I think, “wow; catDQ knows where it’s at. I can feel all the learning they’ve been soaking in!”.
Granted, that’s just the impression I get from reading your posts. Maybe your actual study is a mess I would cry at, or maybe you’re being humble about how much time you actually put in; there’s no way to know. That’s the danger of forums like these: your own experiences and biases will greatly influence your own perception of your progress as you compare yourself to others. Like the others, I would say don’t worry: you’re doing fine at the pace you’re at, and you’ll reach your goal as long as you don’t give up. Maybe you’re not where you feel you should be, but that’s something we all probably feel. I know I tear up a little bit every time I try to understand spoken Japanese; my listening is awful.
Anyhow, maybe it’s time to take a break from your usual study routine? I’m not suggesting throwing it away entirely, but maybe instead a slight diversion, just something to refresh how you’ve been engaging with the language and give yourself a break from the routine. Go through and sit down and read Kino 1, for instance. Even if you feel like you’re only getting 10%, you can still get some pretty sweet benefits. For instance:
Vocabulary. I guarantee you’ll be able to pull out 500 words (at least) you didn’t know before. And if my memories of that first book serve, they’re likely all going to be useful, common words you’ll now know for other situations.
Grammar. You can pull out specific sentences here with grammar patterns you’re learning/are still weak with, and use them as study aids. Now you’ve got something concrete to link that grammar point in your mind, instead of some generic sentence found in a textbook.
Familiarity with a different writing style. This one’s a bit tougher the less you understand, but in general I would say it’s helpful to be exposed to different ways of writing Japanese. Textbook/graded reader Japanese is going to be very straightforward and aimed at a learner, but regular authors are going to want to play with the language a bit. This could be a good opportunity to get a feel for what more naturally-written Japanese might feel like.
A solid benchmark for progress. It really sounds like one of your main issues is how tough it is to benchmark yourself, to see if you’ve really improved. Kino could be one, I think. It was for me, at least. I tried to read this book three times: the first two I failed miserably and didn’t make it past the first two pages of chapter 1, and the third I sped through it and was shocked at my own progress. Read the book now (or as much as you can), and then come back in one year and re-read the same thing. How much did you learn in the meantime? How much has your reading speed increased? I guarantee it’ll feel like night and day.
All of these suggestions work just as well if you pick a specific chapter from Kino instead of reading the entire book, of course, and I’m sure you could do essentially the same thing with a movie/TV show/audiobook/whatever interests you. And to be clear, I’m suggesting working only on Kino (or your media of choice). Set aside the textbooks and graded readers while you work on this, and have it be your focus.
And ultimately, that’s all these thoughts are: suggestions. If you feel like you’d benefit more from continuing on your current study plan, by all means! Even if you don’t listen to a word I say, hopefully it might spark some alternate ideas that you use further down the line. Learning’s all about learning how to learn, after all.
Thank you, it’s only the way it is because of my work schedules. I get 3 days off and work 4 long shifts but the days off allow me to focus on study and the working days allow me to work on listening (during the commute) and extra reading (on breaks and during long intervals between calls on quieter days).
Thanks, that’s a great idea. I had previously been using the ミラーさん novels for just that purpose though now they don’t show much due to me being able to understand about 95% (approximately) with very few look ups. I put Kino aside because I wasn’t understanding enough in the reading time spaces I had at work but if it’s used as my sole study resource in place of a textbook for a period of time then I’ll have longer sessions to try to read it. There’s nothing wrong with me setting a time period to try then at the end seeing if it’s had any impact.
Kids around that age know 20k words. No way to reach that in 3 years; well at least not for me I would be happy to reach it in 8 years, like the kids do…
That’s true, though adults can supposedly learn much more in a much shorter space of time (though in my case I’m just too slow at learning to get there that quickly).
I’m hoping in my case, it doesn’t take me 8 years to get to that stage
Taking @eefara’s advice, I’m finishing off the kanji section in the Genki 2 workbook this week so I at least have a bit extra kanji practice (I’m back at work tomorrow) then starting Sunday I’ll switch to going through only キノの旅 book 1 and working my way through that as my sole study resource.
For days I’m working I’ll be reading extensively through one of the books I’ve already read (the short stories and folktales books above) so I’ve got something I’m able to cover more than a few lines of within my breaks at work and hopefully it’ll also help me pick up more from them than I did the first time round. Once I’ve completed キノの旅 book one, I’ll switch back to MNN blue beginners set and finish working through those before deciding the next steps. We’ll see how it goes.
Thank you to everyone for the advice and support, it is really appreciated.
To add what others said and to show that you’re not alone, I studied Japanese for 10 years and then I studied super hard for 6 months for JLPT and then I passed N3. You’re not slow.
And, to give some positive perspective, I survived for 10 years in conversations with Japanese people with N4-ish level Japanese. You can do a lot with “low level” Japanese!
I feel like the JLPT is a weird ruler to use. I feel like as you go from N5 to N1, it gets harder but not in a practical, useful way, because it’s a big mix of formal written and casual spoken language.
Same here. I still struggle with some of the things in ドラえもん.
There was one time I saw in a grade school classroom, a sign that said something like “ここに来てからには、がんばろう！” (“Now that you came here, do your best!”), which からには is considered N2 grammar. https://japanesetest4you.com/flashcard/learn-jlpt-n2-grammar-からには-kara-niwa/
I think with Japanese, unlike learning other languages that are similar to English (or other similar European language), there’s so many things that work differently that it really helps to have someone (tutor or forums) explain some concepts to you to help you grasp the way Japanese is expressed.
So, I’d say be happy with what you do understand, and be happy when you learn something new!
Good luck! I can’t wait to hear how it goes! Don’t be discouraged if you start really slow; this might end up being a long project, but you’ll be getting a ton of benefit from it, even if it’s not obvious at first.
By the way - have you thought about maybe trying out a book club, e.g. over at the Wanikani forums? Nothing has ever given me quite a push in understanding native material as joining book clubs. (I never had your patience for graded readers, so I have no idea how well those compare.)
And I’m still wondering if there isn’t any native content that is might be interesting to you, but is easier than Kino no Tabi. Kino is one of my goals too - actually one of the two first “big, far off” goals I made for Japanese back when I was starting out ~3 years ago - but I accepted long ago that it will take me a long time to get there. And now in the L20+ range I have finally started finding content that actually interests me, so I’m reading along happily, and L29 will arrive soon enough.
Sorry if neither part is helpful to you - this is just what helped me, so I thought I’d share it. Either way, I hope you’ll soon find a way of learning that makes you feel happy!
Thanks for suggesting those it was actually on Wanikani that I originally found Natively. I have tried the Wanikani book clubs (and also a multilingual book club on Journaly.com) but I found them difficult to navigate and, for me, near impossible to find the info I was looking for without trawling through hundreds of comments. I know they can be helpful but I found it didn’t work for me.
I found the physical graded readers I have easier because most pre-empt the questions you might have on the grammar and most give a short vocabulary list for unusual vocabulary used so I could use that to work out the meaning. Some of them, like the ミラーさん novels are full japanese with no English and no vocabulary or grammar lists and there are a few others that are native level stories but the grammar is broken down into manageable chunks.
I’m waiting on a few lower level books arriving but they’ve been on order since January and delivery atm isn’t quick. I think my biggest issues are understanding grammar in context and my limited vocabulary but hopefully trying Kino this way will help and then I can progress from there.
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And the rest is all about using your time as efficiently as possible for you personally.
For what it’s worth, 
I would be happy to reach it in 8 years, like the kids do…
it was actually on Wanikani that I originally found Natively. I have tried the Wanikani book clubs (and also a multilingual book club on 