Product Updates & Casual Natively Discussion

It was lvl 40.

Directly: There’s a few situations here. Let’s consider a hypothetical book was submitted with a LVL 30 estimate, but a consensus level of around 20.

Situation A: Graders during temporary phase grade it as a lvl 20 book
If the graders consistently grade it as a lvl 20 book, the initial grade doesn’t have any impact. A book only moves out of the temporary system after there’s a good variety of grades (=, >, <), which in this case only occurs when it’s being compared against books ~ lvl 20. As comparisons in the temporary phase do not impact the grading of books they’re compared against, there is no ultimate impact.

The book enters the db as fully graded at lvl 20.

Situation B: Divergent graders during the temporary phase
This is the case that causes issues. Let’s say the graders in the temporary phase judge it at lvl 27 and it comes into the db as fully graded at lvl 27. Then it will take awhile to reach the consensus level of lvl 20. Additionally, it injects a lot of points into the global system, so all gradings are inflated.

However, you would expect divergent grades to randomly come into the system, sometimes higher, sometimes lower… so over the course of the entire db it hopefully has a relatively small impact and the notion of a ‘lvl 20’ book for instance stays mostly constant.

Outside of those injected points into the global system, this divergent initial grading does not have a lasting impact on the book. Once it reaches the consensus lvl of 20, it will just bounce around that level a little (maybe 19-21), but stay put.

Indirectly: You are right that situation B is encouraged somewhat by a bad initial estimate. Going back to our example, the first few grades you would be prompted for the lvl 30 estimated book would be against lvl 30 books you’ve read. There is of course a higher chance of divergent gradings if you’re prompted against books of a drastically different level to the consensus, rather than a similar level.

But I think this is still pretty well mitigated against in the new temporary rating system… it was much worse in the old one. And, in general, I think people attribute bad grades to poor estimates too much. It’s much more likely that someone genuinely thought a book was harder in the initial phase and situation B occurred.

The major caveat to this is high level manga submissions. High level manga are more likely to be compared against novels as there’s fewer of them, leading to a larger chance for situation b as obviously people have different opinions when comparing manga vs novels.

That’s perhaps a situation we could better mitigate against.

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That’s why I think expanding the grading range for high level manga would be a good idea. It doesn’t even have to be a fixed range if you don’t want it to be. It could be based on the current DB or current user. E.g only give comparisons beyond 5 levels if the user doesn’t have 6 manga to compare within that range, but never go beyond 10 levels. Or something like that.

I know you may simply not what to do anything about this for now, which is fine of course. Ultimately (as mentioned many times) I’d love to be able to grade anything and have it impact the levels fairly. If I think a level 25 manga is harder than a level 35 manga, that’s useful to know. I’m sure events like that would be rare, but when they do happen, it could (given the right algorithm) fix discrepancies like this.

For now I might need @Bijak to read うらら迷路帖 to see what they think of the difficulty. :joy:

(The level 30 manga I’d also describe as similar in difficulty are 此花亭奇譚 and このはな綺譚 [effectively the same series, read in that order] if anyone is curious.)

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Is there a grading history available?

I’d be curious to access it, just for self reference. Sometimes I look for a book, and get confused when I go back and the grading has changed. Not sure if it has changed, when or if it was just my imagination, so a change history would be handy.

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You can see the dates of gradings, but that’s all I know of. I know I’ve gone back and regraded some things I felt I messed up on, but you’d only be able to see that there’s newer gradings not that I removed old ones :thinking:

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Yes, it’d be great! It’s actually already been talked about in this long thread :sweat_smile:

Would love to implement, on the list.

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Maybe a Trello or a simple list of things that are planned would be good then, there are way too many messages and this will happen more times :rofl:

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Is it possible to exclude manga from the statistics on your profile? Or maybe a toggle would be nice: manga - novels - combined, or something similar.
I love the statistics but I hate to see manga pages read and novel pages read intermixed… so much so that I removed all of my read manga (not a large amount, but still) from bookmeter.
But I would love to track both on Natively and get accurate (separate) stats for both mediums.

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Feature request: Add a setting that let’s us choose whether “where to find” links go to the digital or physical versions, when possible. I find that most of the time I click a “where to find” link, I have to switch to the digital version on Amazon afterward anyway.

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Another idea: A stats section to show your score distribution. Would be good to be able to filter that chart by book type (well, that would be good for the whole page I guess). Similar to this AniList chart:

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I’m not familiar with AniList’s UI - is this the score you give to books (ex: 3/5) or the difficulty score?

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I just meant score out of 5 (AniList doesn’t have difficulty scores anyway). So for Natively it would just have five bars, from 1/5 to 5/5. Maybe having a simple average at the top of the stats page would be nice as well.

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Yes, agreed on all these ideas! @Myria suggestion for filters (which @seanblue has also suggested) is the next thing to add when I do stats. Please don’t remove your manga for this reason, I will add those filters soon hopefully!

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A small request: on the Browse menu, could we get a ‘New Books’ option that links to the sort by recently added results? :slight_smile:

(Also, maybe this is simply something being sluggish, but while looking at the newer books, I noticed that one that was added for me a couple days ago isn’t showing up in either recently added or in a search - ときめく妖怪図鑑 | L30??)

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I kinda don’t want to add to that menu… already long enough :sweat_smile:

I’m sorry! In what seems like a monthly battle, I am again fighting with Amazon’s search servers. Of course all my solutions from last battle seems to not be relevant to this one.

Right now approximately 70% of the search database is there, but the remaining less popular 30% may take a little while to appear in search.

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I think there would be a reasonable amount of people who might want to look specifically for standalone books or series. Right now, you can set the search page to one volume only for series, but you can’t filter them out or the other way around. I also think it would be useful if we could see the volume count or filter out series in our library. You can see how many books are in a series in the search page, but not on the library for books in your wishlist if you only added the first volume. I guess this isn’t a problem for people who don’t add a million things to their wishlist, but it can be hard to tell what’s a standalone book or not.

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Aside from the number of reading sessions, it would be doable to add a progress % like in the frontpage?

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Haha… alright all these requests are getting a bit out of hand, which is great but also :exploding_head:

I will be making a Trello board this week. To be honest, I’m not sure how much people will really look at the Trello board, but, at the very least, it will allow me the action of logging your request and being able to retrieve quickly later.

As you might imagine though… while I’d LOVE to get to the overwhelming amount of “nice-to-haves”, many will unfortunately hang out in the ‘requested’ status for quite a long time. Too much to do :confused:

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Not sure if it can be done with Trello, but some sort of upvote thing for the requests column might help you find what the community thinks it’s more important to them.

Of course that’s just a reference for you, and you can end up doing whatever order, but I think it would be nice.

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Heh. I guess this is part of the concern for me. I have pretty limited capacity and I really have to focus on growth initiatives and features, which are generally less prioritized by the community.

I also have to frankly acknowledge that the UI requests have to be juxtaposed against competition… and I already think the Natively UI, filters & search are far superior to the competition, which means those requests are de-prioritized.

Now, that’s not to say I don’t want do these UI requests and that I don’t really appreciate feedback… I do! If they’re quick development time for a nice quality of life boost, obviously I’ll try to slip it in. I do want to keep making it nicer! Many of the things mentioned here too (tagging, book descriptions) do impact a wide swath of users and tangibly limit the growth of the book site, so they are high priority.

But, my (perhaps unreasonable) worry with voting is that people become a little jaded if I don’t follow it… and that people will be more focused on little UI things :sweat_smile:

Just surfacing the trello board without voting provides a bit more fuzziness and emphasizes how large the backlog is… making people a bit more understanding when the feature doesn’t get implemented.

Don’t know if all that makes sense, but that’s where I’m at right now.

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By the way, just for fun, you could make a poll about all those features, to see which ones are the most requested. (And warn that poll results are non-binding)

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