Maybe it’s cuz I’ve read 青い花 but that discussion didn’t catch me off guard (tho Yumi’s opinion definitely did!!). I get what you mean about the juxtaposition tho. (the connection being there is a 痴漢 scene very early on in 青い花 (that is dealt with very well))
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I read to around 8% today, I might pick up the anime just to be able to tell characters apart. I’m still really bad with kanji for names and there are a lot of names here. Having faces and voices to match the character names might at least help it stick to my mind better. Although I couldn’t find japanese subs for it. I guess since I am reading the novel as well, it might not be a big problem to not have subs.
Also I find often this novel has sentences that are far longer than I am comfortable with. I will get what they mean after reading a few times, but I don’t stop and try to break them down exactly, or I’d never progress…
All in all though I did read a good chunk today so not insurmountable difficulties 
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Not sure it will help you so much in this regard (half-kidding). It took forever for them to stick for me. I’m not always the most attentive tho. Doing them together it probably will tho
I can add kanji names + kana to the OP in a bit, so there’s a quick reference.
Maria-sama ga Miteru · Jimaku - not the best selection tho
Maria-sama ga Miteru - Japanese subtitles - kitsunekko.net - should have S1
They may need to be retimed, in any case. I didn’t find them till after I’d watched S1, and watched the rest without.
It’s definitely a challenge at times. Between the length and Konno-sensei’s writing style, they can be a bit hard to parse. I try to read them once or twice, and if I still don’t get it then I check the translation and reread them.
The novels have served as a really helpful exercise in grammar and reading comprehension for me, cuz of stuff like this (I’m on vol 4 rn)
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You shouldn’t do that for my sake, I am not likely to check the thread while reading. Though maybe it would be helpful to others. Worst case I’d just take notes on paper so I can check it while reading.
I actually did check both those sites but … somehow missed that kitsunekko had zips! Thank you!
Do you plan on finishing the series? To me long series always feel intimidating, but then I think I’m one of the lower level active users on the forum right now, so maybe more intimidated because of that
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I added them anyway, cuz someone will probably find them useful - they’re probably in the beginning of the book too fwiw
Yes!! I’m pretty much in love with this series at this point, and it’s at a perfect difficulty level for me, where it’s a challenge but I still enjoy it. I think part of it might be that I’ve watched the whole anime (which goes through vol 29), and am really excited to get to the stuff in S4 (and S3 to an extent). Also jpdb has really made things easier for me, with picking up vocab.
Otoh I’m more daunted by say ソードアート・オンライン | L33 (which I will eventually finish in Japanese) bc of genre and level. Tho that has audiobooks now, which definitely helps!
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psa for anyone who wants the subs: the zip for season 1 actually only includes subs for 1-5 and 11. the other subs seem to be chinese. the one for season 2 doesn’t seem to have any japanese. didn’t check the rest.
I might ai generate subs for the missing eps depending on how it goes once I get there. ai subs aren’t ideal but I found a setup that makes them decently accurate. The only reason I hesitate is that it takes a long time really.
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chapter 5 grammar question
本来ならば、イメージ的に一番離れた位置にいてしかるべき組み合わせではなかろうか。
I get the gist of this sentence I think. It’s a situation that is far removed from her mental image (of sachiko). But I can’t make sense of the grammar particularly the bolded parts.
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なかろう=ないだろう
位置にいてしかるべき= (位置にいて)(しかるべき)
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thank you!!
Also I watched the anime up until where I am in chapter 5, and while it is expected to be faster paced, I was surprised they completely removed Yumi’s fall and there was just this very awkward transition. They also made Tsutako much less intense, so I guess they decided it isn’t fit for the tone? But it just made the scene flow weirdly…
edit: upon further watching , they just put that scene later on in flashback
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Sorry, I don’t read the book. I cannot comment on its content. Here you‘ll have to wait for @暁のルナ or some other actual reader.
Thats fine I was just commenting on the thread generally not to you directly , I didnt want to make a seperate post.
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when you say ch5, like the 暑い二週目 chapter?? or section 5 of chapter 1? Amazing to hear the words 蔦子 and less intense, in the same sentence 
(I’m not sure which scene you have in mind, but she’s incorrigible in the anime and the book! I guess it’s worse in the books tho…)
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Oh sorry I meant section 5, I wish I was that fast a reader lol
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Done with the first chapter. Some long and rambly thoughs on it and the first ep of the anime that covers the same events.
thoughts or Sachiko apologism
I had familiarity with marimite before as I had just discovered anime while it was airing, and was more into it than any other time in my life. While I never watched marimite, it was in my periphery as I was a yuri fan. That also meant I had some preconceived notions about it in my head. Further exorbitated by the knowledge that it repopularized class s, which to me felt like tantamount to queerbaiting. So marimite for years was partly a classic i should get to sometime, and partly something that I assumed would be frustrating in it’s inability commit to a real lesbian relationship (I suppose I could still end up feeling that way, but lately I don’t care as much I think)
I also had assumptions about the characters, but I’m surprised at how much I liked Sachiko. Like Yumi I expected her to be perfect as she seems form the outside (unlike Yumi I wasn’t taken by this idea…). When she started yelling around and even being cruel to Yumi, I was really happy. She felt like a very human character.
It also helps that I thought (her attitude towards Yumi aside) she was fully in the right during the confrontation with the Rose’s.
I think not making the best case for yourself because you’re mad, and ended up looking petulant while the other party is just calmly answering, even though you know you’re right, is something that’s very human and I could relate to. So I immediately rooted for Sachiko.
In fact considering their general attitude and the details, I feel like the roses didn’t inform Sachiko on purpose, to teach her a lesson. It’s either that or a huge mismanagement on their part, neither puts them in a great light.
I mean, if you know your lead is purposefully avoiding meetings, that’s all the more reason to go out of your way to tell her. And I just can’t believe none of them thought to do that, or that it didn’t even naturally come up before.
Second, their general attitude towards Sachiko just seems to be mocking and a bit cruel. I mean, the whole “you have no right to complain if you don’t even have a sister thing”, makes no sense right. It’s a cruel thing to tell someone you can’t complain about something that directly affects you, because you (essentially) aren’t good enough.
They only considered the problem at all when Yumi brought it up. And while their objections were reasonable (that it’s too late to change various things), those went immediately out of the window when one of their own came up with the bet.
The bet also doesn’t make sense right. Like Sei’s bet is very easily worse than the alternative of just changing it now. It opens the possibility of the lead being changed last minute, and instead of choosing someone capable, they chose Yumi who in all likelihood has no ability or experience at all.
It really seemed like this was only set up and then agreed to for their own amusement, and no one truly cares about the play that much. Which makes their treatment of Sachiko even worse.
Like I assume they aren’t truly cruel (I assume the treatment is at least in part seen as “tough love” on Yoko’s part perhaps) but this scene did not warm me up to them.
Sachiko is also cruel of course, towards Yumi. Especially the part where she snapped at her for defending her against the other roses, I felt a bit frustrated. But overall as I thought everything else was justified, I was happy to see her have some flaws that even I see as such.
As for Yumi, I liked her as well. She is mostly withdrawn and a reactive character, but I think that she was still quite likeable when reading her pov in the novel (though less so in the anime where she comes across more bland). It helps that she overall seems to agree with my assessment of the Yamayurikai , or possibly I was influenced by her pov. I also like that she wasn’t much put off by Sachiko’s anger. I think her understanding that Sachiko is in an unfair situation shows that they might make a good pair. Although of course we have yet to see anything from Sachiko’s side.
Lastly ; some thoughts towards the anime. I don’t think it’s very good. With how straightforward this section is, telling it anachronistically was a really weird choice. It just makes it needlessly convoluted, instead of focusing on the interpersonal drama. Of course not every interaction will make it into the anime, but I felt like if they had just told the story linearly, and kept just a little more in, it would have been much improved. I also don’t think either Sachiko or Yumi are as interesting as in the novel. Yumi is understandable as the pov character will always be more interesting in the novel. Sachiko on the other hand feels much more toned down. It might be just my interpretation of the text, but in the illustration of the book she also seems much more furious than inn the anime, where it is more of a calm and cool anger. I think I like the novels depiction better as it feels more human (and has more of a gap moe element too). On the other hand, I really like the voices for everyone.
I’m really happy this bookclub happened, because while I might have gotten to marimite one day, I’d definitely would have chosen the anime over the novels. But so far I much prefer the novels (of course only based on one chapter…).
edit: wanted to add one more thing but not make another post
sapphires
In the novel yumi wonders why sapphires are mentioned next to natural beauties in the maria-sama song. ı didn’t think much of it at the time, but the anime has her repeat that thought (when most of them are omitted) and the song is even heard in it.
Which made me think about Yumi’s question. I have two answers
- Sapphires are a naturally occuring as well. So there is nothing odd about it being mentioned. It also could be considered to have a more secondary meaning of a “hidden” beauty, as sapphires have to be unearthed.
- Whether the above is intended or not, the materialistic sense is still apt. I’m not sure if there are scholarship students in the school on merit alone, but the vast majority of the schoolbody seems to be children of the wealthy.
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I’ve also finished Chapter 1 recently.
Chapter 1
実際に姉妹の関係にあるのなら、お姉さまの命令は絶対である
Wow. I can’t see this going badly at all /s. Do they at least get to have a save word?
「祐巳のことはずっと面倒みます。私が教育して、立派な紅薔薇にしてみせます。だったら問題ないのでしょう?
Lol. It’s like a kid telling its parents it will take good care of the puppy and begging them to let it keep it.
湯気の立ち上る赤い液体が白いカップに七分日ほど注がれ、目の前に置かれた。これは、紅茶という飲み物だ。
Wow. I generally like the writing style. But what’s up with that? How didn’t an editor convince the author to just write simply “they had tea”? Is black tea (instead of green tea) something exotic for a Japanese girl?
I wasn’t very aware of marimite specifically, but I’ve heard of class s, and I’ve seen the catholic all girls school setting in a few yuri works. So I felt like I should go to the source to see what this all is referring to.
My hope is that I can understand it as something that has it’s own value and is not just a failed attempt at Yuri. Maybe something that would appeal to straight girls.
But so far, I don’t think I can jive with the story. I think the prose is very well written. But I can’t understand this worship. I can just about relate to being a fan of an artist or historical person or even a celebrity. But less so for your upperclassman. The way Yumi behaves, you’d think Sachiko invented the cure for cancer or has Gods in her lineage. And her farts probably smell of roses. Why would Yumi worship her like that when Sachiko doesn’t seem to be special and she isn’t “gay for her”?
Yes. That was somewhat of a relief.
I had to constantly remind myself that your lead actress bailing on you is actually a real inconvenience. If you ignore that Sachiko has a good reason and that the Roses are partially to blame for the miscommunication (which is a really large thing to ignore), the Roses still wouldn’t be in their right to pressure Sachiko (I think), but they’d be reasonable to be angry.
They have this whole pseudo heredity system going on, right? So there is probably a lot of pressure for Sachiko to “produce” a heir. Although one of the Roses (Rose Gigantea, Sei Satō) is third year with a first year sister. So it seems to happen that they either fail to or aren’t in a hurry to produce that heir.
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on description of tea
Isn’t that the bit where the author is trying to convey that Yumi is so bewildered by events that she can’t even identify commonplace objects?
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replies to bbo, chapter 1
I also try to go into it with a mindset of something that has it’s own value, and not get bogged down with it being not a romance. I don’t necessarily think this would appeal to straight girls demographically though. For me, I like seeing stories that are focused on relationships between women, and this will be that romance or no.
It’s also definitely popular among yuri fans and gay women in general. Japan seems to put relatively less importance on whether something is confirmed. And as far as I can understand marimite leaves it up to the imagination if there is something more or not.
This is not my preference, but like I set I’m trying to shift my mindset for this work as well as some other older influential yuri series I want to get to like onii sama e
I feel as if admiration for upperclassmen is kind of a japanese thing? I guess its like something of a rolemodel.
Though honestly, for all intents and purposes, to me Yumi’s feelings seem like a crush. I don’t really care to split the difference on what it really is. Now when they get closer maybe the feeling will be more akin of a deep friendship. But I don’t mind reading it as a crush for now that maybe yumi doesn’t fully realize it to be.
I would agree they’re reasonable to be angry if I didn’t feel like this situation was their fault to begin with. If your lead actress dislikes men to the point of avoiding meetings where they will be, why wouldn’t you think to tell her. I really think they just wanted to teach Sachiko a lesson. Especially with Shimako saying “she’s always like this” when we first hear Sachiko yelling, it seems like if not this Sachiko is complaining about something else. It’s like they were setting her up to blow up at them knowing her character. If it’s not intentional, I don’t know what to make of all that.
I had assumed that she had an “heir” but some drama happened there. Since there was some emphasis on the situation early on, I assume there is a bigger reason we will hear about eventually.
Now that I think about it, the whole Shamiko thing makes that line to Sachiko especially cruel. She did try to “produce an heir” but Sei stole hers Shamiko doesn’t seem fond of Sachiko though, so maybe she would have turned her down anyway.
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further thoughs on the nature of the feelings between oneesama and imouto
I think the way I am thinking of it is that, the whole soeur thing is in the end a fantastical relationship that doesn’t exist in real life (or if it does, in very specific circumstances). But on the other hand it’s incredibly important in-universe to the characters to the point of being likened to marriage.
So I think with this in mind, Yumi’s feelings are specific to this fantasy-relationship. A soeur-crush that is borne out of the circumstances of the school. This might be romantic in addition but is not inherently so. And just like you don’t necessarily want to be in a relationship with someone with a crush on that you don’t know that well, Yumi also doesn’t want Sachiko as her actual onee-sama(yet).
Further on the romance, obviously romantic connections are alluded to intentionally. Although the intention of it is supposed to be guidance, its likened it to marriage, and the act of exchanging roseries in private is called romantic. So soeur-ship is by design, in between romance, friendship and tutorship.
I imagine for each soeur pair, the specifics of the relationship flavor is different. Between Sachiko and her onee-sama, while we didn’t get that much content yet I get the feeling it’s more focused on the “guidance” part.
also see Romantic friendship - Wikipedia the womens college subsection for the real life equivalent of this.
Also one point I’m not fully clear on, can a person have multiple sisters? I get the impression you have one older sister, but can have multiple younger.
I need to stop talking so much before reading further, I feel like everything I say could be proven wrong the next chapter
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This is a delight to wake up to all this discussion 
Since it’s functional I’ll answer this outside of the drop-down. “Multiple sisters” (in either direction) doesn’t exist in this series afaik.
responses to various things
@earwen it’s interesting to read your impressions of the anime. I don’t remember the beginning so clearly, but I had to really drag myself through the first arc, and wonder if that had something to do with why (tho I already had a really negative impression from the book, so maybe not)
The Roses made the worst possible impression on me, to the point where my friend still teases me that I really don’t like them (tho I do have a pretty decent opinion of Sei (most of the time) as the series goes on, and the other two are generally not so bad either, though a bit underdeveloped imo). I do think it’s worth keeping in mind that these are all high school students, and this kind of conduct seems not out of line for that. (Imo it adds a degree of realism, often lacking in other series)
Wrt Sachiko… She’s actually one of my least favorite characters in the series (for various reasons). But now that you mention it, one of the things I love about this series is that everybody is meaningfully flawed in some way - which is very refreshing. In any case, I did think that Sachiko was extremely justified in this situation as well (besides lashing out at Yumi and trying to use her as a pawn, poor girl)
For all that Yumi can be naive and dense about, I also really appreciate that she sees the situation(s) and the 山百合会 honestly in general.
What does the age gap moe thing mean here?
I agree about the novels being the superior version, but fwiw I think the anime gets better as it goes too. Part of what got me so gung-ho about the novels is that there was a lot that I loved from the anime (and my favorite season apparently drops a lot).
Idk I definitely had upperclassmen I was really in awe of in high school, and there were definitely the kids who were put on a pedestal by the other kids in various ways. As a 1st or 2nd year, even a grade up could make a much stronger impression. In the story, I feel like a lot of it has too do with the semi-cloistered environment that this school is, and lack of cell phones
I think that is an accurate description of the present (not continuing about future either way)
If there weren’t the possibility of failure, there wouldn’t be pressure. I think some of it has to do with the fact that Shimako (afaict) can’t have a younger sister this year, which means that there would currently only be one bouton next year. But I agree it’s a bit ridiculous.
Thx for the reminder of おにいさまへ! I’ve been wondering what I should watch next, since there’s only one Winter 2025 anime I’m interested in (薬屋のひとりごと). I think this will be my answer.
This is a large part of what makes the series so interesting to me. What souers look like to Yumi vs to other individuals is not exactly the same
A question I have learned to ask myself in this series: “is this accurate/reasonable, or am I seeing things through a Yumi-normative lens?”
While I won’t say anything about the next chapter specifically, this series likes to do that at various points along the way.
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replies
true, I think I got caught up in the perspective of these being onee-sama, and therefore should know better But part of it is also me trying to figure out what exactly is the intended readon their actions.
gap moe (its nothing about age) is the appeal in a character acting out of (their perceived) character. For a very generic example a yakuza character acting very lovey-dovey or something. On google the first result says “The gap between appearance and inner self, between impression and reality”, which feels accurate. In this case, I like the image of the supposedly cool onee-sama sachiko being depicted as throwing a tantrum 
I remembered you said (in your review? or perhaps somewhere on the forums) that you disliked Sachiko before, so I’m curious to see more of her, I assume you can’t talk about what you dislike right now without spoilers.
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