Have you come across any interesting JLPT grammar?

Sometimes people say… oh … JLPT that’s not real Japanese!!!
I think I am pretty good at spotting grammar in the wild.
I have been reading a lot of Isekai light novels lately and I see JLPT grammar very very often.

I will post two interesting points later I read recently when I get home.
Anyone else have anything they want to share??

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I don’t really know what JLPT grammar is supposed to be, but there are a few grammar points I like coming across.
One is 言わんばかり (“as if to say”).
The other is the old connective form, especially in combination with ございます. (ご機嫌麗しゅう or よろしゅうございますか)
(Well, except when used in set expressions like おはようございます because that’s boring).

Ah, speaking of ございます, I’m still trying to wrap my head around the difference between にございます and でございます. Not that it will ever affect me, since I can understand it from context and I will never need to produce that kind of sentence, but it’s fun!

There’s probably more, but that’s all that comes to mind at the moment.

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I don’t specifically study for the JLPT but when I am reading I will look up some grammar points and find websites that correlate the grammar I am looking up to a JLPT level. I don’t have any interesting examples to share since the usage seems to be standard but in the VN I’m reading, せいか has come up a ton (thankfully the grammar on that is pretty straight forward so was easy to pickup) and I’ve seen にしたって a decent amount.

I’m so surprised that people are saying that, omg. I’d say it’s definitely real Japanese…I’ve heard a ton of grammar points used and I’ve read a ton of them–I think it’s just a matter of recognizing them.

Unless they’re talking about how the JLPT is a bit stiff, but I mean, yeah…it’s supposed to be since it’s an assessment of ability. Normally when there’s a phrase/something that my Japanese friends say that I can’t understand, they’ll explain the grammar to me and how I can use it. but that might just be because they know I’m studying Japanese.

I don’t think I’ve heard ばかり and ばかりでなく, but I know that they’re in use, still.

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lol im gonna agree with that statement that his listening skills must’ve been horrible if he rarely heard です・ます. It’s either that or he was dealing with people who were purposely being informal because he was a foreigner. Or he was only in situations where he was being casual. I was there for about a year and I heard it everywhere lol. Even on the announcements that might happen in the train station or when ordering at a restaurant…

Sometimes I feel like people say stuff like that because they want to discourage people from taking the JLPT because they think it’s pointless. (or perhaps they used a JLPT-focused textbook when learning and was frustrated because they had no intentions on taking the JLPT.) But some people are taking the JLPT for resumé purposes or other reasons where they need a solid form of proficiency measurement to help them achieve their goal.

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This reminds me of people claiming that SAT vocabulary is crazy and obscure and you’ll never need a word like ‘diaphanous’, when in reality, the majority of them are words you’d expect an educated English speaker to know or words that do get used with some frequency in higher-level writing. :sweat_smile:

I came across this N1 grammar point the other day in 昴 1 | L23 , which is not an overly difficult manga:

誰からともなく、双子の弟の前で毎日踊ってる女の子のウワサは聞いてたよ。

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lol that is so true. they definitely do pop up depending on the field that you go into! (or just literature beyond a certain level in general.) It’s always so interesting what people decide is not worth learning when it comes to learning a language. I think some things are better to learn and be pleasantly surprised that you haven’t used it than to be confused. Like how a lot of people refuse to learn kenjougo and sonkeigo…those are far more helpful in the longrun than they think.

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Even after learning those, I still need to check websites on proper business communication every time I’m writing an email.
But people not using Japanese at work are probably fine with just the basics (not learning anything is a bad idea for anyone who wants to consume native content though)

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Yup N1 grammar is everywhere. Just saw this sentence and it made me think of this thread

私は誠実極まりない人間であって、

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I mean, definitely. I also still check, but I did learn it. Plus, like you said, if someone is attempting to consume native materials, they should know it. I’ve met a few people who would ask what particular words meant and I would tell them that it was a sonkeigo/kenjougo of another verb, they’d get upset because they’d already said that they were never going to learn it. I think some things you should just learn (or at least gloss over) anyways because you never know when they’ll pop up.

I had learned it, but never thought I would have to use it outside of my internships or other business issues in Japan, only to encounter it almost every other day when I was at the hospital for health issues. Life has a way of tossing things at you.

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IDK what JLPT this grammar would be, but I was reading thre Magic Treehouse and I stumbled upon this sentence
ジャックが めるのもきかず、
アニーは、さっさと地面 じめんにおりていき、
まるで なかよしの ともだちに うように、
プテラノドンに ちかづいていった。

and I was kind of confused about the の in ジャックが めるもきかず、, becuase I’m pretty sure it’s a Pronoun, but I didn’t know what it was referring to exactly.
So I grabbed my linguistics textbook “An Introduction to Japanese Linguistics” by Natsuko Tsujimura, and it turns out Japanese has this thing called “internally headed relative clauses” WHICH does NOT exist in English.

Grammarly, the head(the true form of の) of the clause "ジャックが めるもきかず、アニーは…’ is ambiguous. It could be ジャック or アニー as illustrated by sentences 188, and 192 from the textbook.
188
その おまわりは 学生がくせいが スパイを くみふせた のを
ころした。

192 (The Two Breakdowns)

その おまわりは スパイをくみふせた 学生がくせいころした。
the cop shot and killed the student who held down the spy

その おまわりは
学生がくせい

せたスパイを ころした。
The cop shot and killed the spy who held the student down.

Using this, we can guess from context that the sentence was

アニーは「ジャックがアニーを止める」ジャックも聞かず
Anny without Listening To Jack, who was trying to stop her, did blah blah blah

SO YEAH, I THOUGHT THAT WAS COOL

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i immediately want to learn this grammar point :running_woman: :running_woman:

I’ve never looked at jlpt material and I’ve been only studying vocab, kanji and reading native material since I finished with Tobira | L22 a few years ago.

This thread makes me think I should perhaps study more grammar. Any suggestions? I was thinking either the grammar and possibly reading shinkanzen master N2 or New Authentic Japanese: Progressing From Intermediate to Advanced | L29

I don’t know what level this is, and it’s kind of difficult to find a resource talking about it, but I just learned about “masu stem + しな” while reading 穴 | L38, which according to jisho means “having just started …”:

家に入りしな実家の庭を見ると、義祖父は真上に向かってホースを向け、霧のように広がる水をかぶっていた。

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That is interesting. I am not familiar with this.
I asked my wife and she said she was familiar with 「行きしな」「帰りしな」 but not specifically what you listed.

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From your wife‘s examples, seems like it’s limited to verbs of movement. That’s good to know, thanks for asking her about it! :slight_smile:

Googling some more does bring up 行きしな and 帰りしな as the most common versions, 入りしな is probably not as frequently used.

It doesn’t seem to only be limited to verbs of movement. grammar - Usage of しな particle - Japanese Language Stack Exchange I can’t find much else on it, but I guess I’ll go bug some friends for some other examples :sweat_smile: Because I can’t even find a JLPT level associated with it, which means it’s either below N5 or above N1

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Good point, 寝しな (and the other examples so far) are all listed as their own entries in weblio etc. as well.
This hinative question mentions 食べしな and 起きしな as well: What is the meaning of "食べしなに"? - Question about Japanese | HiNative

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I’m trying to get through the So-Matome N1 book and found two of the grammar patterns I’d just covered in random reading the next day. Literally as soon I knew they were a thing, there they were. (I’d seen them before but hadn’t realized it was “grammar” or looked into the precise meaning)

Nをおいて(他に)Vない
(it can only be N)
found in volume 1 of SPY x FAMILY

Nを経て
(across, during, spanning
spotted in a random tweet on my timeline about a former rock musician running for political office

I really encourage everyone to read over the N2 and N1 grammar lists, even if you don’t intend to take the tests. It’s not obscure grammar at all, and if you’ve done a lot of reading you’ll probably recognize most of it. Even if you don’t find anything to study/review, I think it’s beneficial to have a sense of what your passive knowledge is, in order to better know what things might be difficult for less-experienced readers.

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Try going through Nihongo Kyoshi and maybe the Nihongo Mori 1 hour videos afterwards. That should be enough for you to be able to start noticing some grammar points.

I don’t think you need to go through a JLPT book unless you want a deeper knowledge or are taking the test. I feel it’s better to get a grasp, read & gain exposure, then go through a workbook like SKM.

An easy N2 one to miss is ものの, likewise a bunch of ところ・ばかり points are easy to misinterpret.

Oh and a shocker as N1 for me was: ただ~あるのみ/ただ~のみ、which you can probably guess from ~N4 level.

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