Luna's Learning Log

[暁のルナ]

@monace

I’ve always assumed Greek and Roman mythology was as omnipresent in North America as it is in Europe (or is it just Western-Europe? I’m questioning everything now.

I’ve never been to Europe, so idk how to answer. I live and grew up in the US, but wouldn’t consider myself generally representative in this case. But until I started taking it in 6th or 7th grade (middle school), I hadn’t read or had much exposure to the myths themselves, and don’t think I would have recognized most of the Greek/Roman deities or historical figures by name.

@monace

I’m also wondering… And I don’t know if any of you actually live in America, but if you do, why learn Latin in school? I’m genuinely curious, I see the appeal in Europe, but if you’re not using a Latin language, then the ROI doesn’t seem worth it? Does it actually help?

Why learn any language? It definitely helped me personally understand English better… (in a 1973 study, 28% of English loanwords were from Latin - and that’s before you get into all the words we have in English that are derivatives, ex: transmit (and related words) are trans- ‘across’ + mittere ‘send.

But then part of the ROI is tangential - you’ve learned another language, one that’s the foundation for romance languages, and you’ve learned about things that are very foundational to Western cultural (including Europe). That sounds plenty useful to me. There’s a lot of things that lets you understand - which depending on your background & interests, may be very beneficial.

Also Latin was the “smart kids” class in school. Most people were doing French, Spanish, or Italian when I grew up - and at least in my middle school the spots for Latin were limited (in high school there was more room). So for me, that was part of the appeal. And it was damn fun (well, besides that one teacher)

[shitsurei]

@monace

I’ve always assumed Greek and Roman mythology was as omnipresent in North America as it is in Europe

American here. I think most of my exposure was actually through media and not at school. We probably did a unit on Greek and Roman mythology, but we also did one on Egypt too. And modern world religions.

I get the impression that there was probably a lot more European history/mythology before maybe the 1970s, but also I’m not from “real America” (), so who knows.

[暁のルナ]

@shitsurei

but also I’m not from “real America” (),

What does that even mean??

[shitsurei]

People love to hate California, that’s what that means

[monace]

@暁のルナ

in a 1973 study, 28% of English loanwords were from Latin

Wow that’s a lot more than I thought!

@shitsurei

I’m not from “real America” ()

Haha I thought that meant Canada

Interesting insight, thank you both!

[暁のルナ]

関西弁

I should probably make up a separate “Kansai-ben resources list” post, sometime in the near future, with all the stuff I’ve been finding. Maybe it will be useful to others

Audio input

Anime audio

Inspired by discussion with @CatDQ yesterday, I experimented with listening to just the audio from the eps 1-2 of ラブ★コン S1 | L27 (which I just finished watching), and think it’s a really great way to go - since I can get the benefit of the anime without sitting down and watching it

I also did a bit of listening to some random SAO eps - this seems to be something I can listen to in the background while I work, since I’ve seen it so much. The only downside is it’s not Kansai lol

Podcasts & Vtubers

• アメージング関西弁 - two women in their 50s talking about all sorts of topics. Very fun, but you need to put the volume all the way up. Mixed Kansai + standard
• 早瀬 走 Hayase Sou - Vtuber who doesn’t have an artificial-sounding voice
  • ゼルダの伝説 ムジュラの仮面 (Majora’s Mask) playthrough - fully Kansai, except game speech
  • Has a variety of other content, some of which is appealing to me, some is not.
  • 仏教伝道協会presents笑い飯哲夫のサタデー★ナイト仏教** - I’m not sure how serious the title is, but seems to be “standard dialect but with Kansai intonation & some vocab” - I probably won’t really listen until I get through all the アメージング関西弁

Drama vs anime

Drama episodes are almost twice as long as anime eps, it’s annoying

舞妓さんちのまかないさん drama is really enjoyable. I haven’t watched the anime, but the drama really expands a ton from the manga, from what I can tell (I’m just 38% into vol 1 still). Anyway it’s much less speech dense then anime (especially ラブ★コン), and the eps are 44 min long generally, so progress feels slower… But it’s good to have a new type of audio input, and I’m really glad to have finally found a non-anime show I really like!

Shadowing Vids

Went over the わかりやすい関西弁 - 4泊形容詞 and 4泊形容詞 vids again. Both 4泊 and 5泊 pitch accent is a bit less automatic for me than 3泊. I can still imitate the sentence pitch, and match the rhythm well on most examples tho

I’m not used to making the sounds for しとる instead of してる. So I get a bit slowed down before/after at times. Most sentences I can keep up with the normal speech speed though, which is cool!

Same for this sentence : 忙しい日々を送っとるで - the おくっとる screws me up. I have to consciously relax my muscles for it. And also I often have trouble with/have to consciously think about をお rhythm.

Reading

Started ラブ★コン 1 | L25 - and this is honestly the most useful. I’ve been reading it outloud, and also writing down sentences with Kansai-specific patterns, and it’s perfect for this! I think this sort of thing me than anything will help me improve with actually constructing sentences

Sentences I copied, in 16 pgs (formatting lost, unfortunately)

背ーでかくてええことなんかなんもない
何してても目立つし
今さら気にもしてへんけど
高い所に手が届いて便利やわな

人に親切にしてもろといて巨女てなんや！！

なんややんのか、こら

うわ、ハモったきっしょ

同じ教室におったら

あり得へん

なんで わざわざ自分の身長 際立たせるような巨女と付き合わなあかんねん

だいたい立ったままイビキかいて爆睡する女って どうよ？
うせやん！あたし、イビキかいとったん
一番前の列まで聞こえとったぞ

うせやん！あたしもやで

点を足らんかった1っちゅうねん
あたし、ギリで足りてたー っちゅうねん

聞きはりました？のぶさ〜〜ん

ちゃうもーん

わかってるやん
一人で仲間ハズレいややねんも〜ん

あたしサボる気 満々やったのになあ

何のために私服オッケーの学校 来たんかわからんっ

あのチビの大谷に合わんでええだけマシに
夏期講習って他の組も合同なんやろ？
男前おるかな？

あたしも彼氏とまでは言わんから せめて好きな人欲しいなあ

だってむっちゃお似合いやねんもん
こら いかん 早いとこ彼氏でも作らな

今年の夏休みはいっちょ やったろかー!!
おまえ 何でおんねん！

大谷 頭悪いの 忘れとった！そら おるわ！
人のこと言えんのか！

舞妓さんちのまかないさん 1 | L26 is also useful, but much less text dense, and there’s all the Kyoto-specific patterns

セーラー服と関西弁 1巻 | L24?? is like a good middle ground

Idk whether I’ll continue with 舞妓さんち after this volume, but I’m pretty sure I’ll read all of ラブ★コン - there’s super cheap sets on Mercari too!!

Kansai learning is forcing me to get a bit comfier with less kanji, bc more things are written in hiragana due to contraction or just cuz, I guess. So that’s a nice tangential bonus. Also one fun thing is thinking “how would I say this in Kansai?” or subvocalizing it in Kansai instead of what’s printed

標準語

Haven’t made as much progress on Grimgar or seasonals lately, bc of the Kansai obsession. I’ll probably finish Grimgar over the weekend

Dropped ばっどがーる S1 | L26 and うたごえはミルフィーユ S1 | L23 since I have so much to catch up on. Considering dropping フードコートで、また明日。 S1 | L24 but there’s just 2 eps left. Truthfully considering dropping everything besides クレバテス-魔獣の王と赤子と屍の勇者 S1 | L29 and 薫る花は凛と咲く S1 | L22 (which ironically is the only one I’m caught up in), but I have enough should/want left to keep them in for now

Other

I’m thinking of stopping collecting the physical Yurihime each month, after this year, for money reasons, since it locks me into ordering physical stuff every month. Hesitant tho, bc they’re hard to find after the fact

[暁のルナ]

Weekly progress

I’m going for 6 on any given day. For the books, I’ll count even a page (though always try to do more anyway). Same for the game - just a few min is fine.

I’ll put stuff under a details fold, once the week is done, so it doesn’t get too long

Template

Task	Progress
Chapter of まんじ
わかりやすい関西弁
ジャルジャルアイランド
Kansai textbook
しゃべってみなはれ
Bunpro
Anime/TV
セーラー服と関西弁 1巻
ラブ★コン 漫画
ラブ★コン ゲーム
ラブ★コン オーディオ
New Game (Yun)

Aug 31 - Sep 6

Progress

Task	Progress
Chapter of まんじ
わかりやすい関西弁
ジャルジャルアイランド
Kansai textbook
しゃべってみなはれ
Bunpro
Anime/TV
セーラー服と関西弁 1巻
舞妓さんち 漫画
ラブ★コン 漫画
ラブ★コン ゲーム
ラブ★コン オーディオ
New Game (Yun)

Sep 7 - Sep 13

Task	Progress
Chapter of まんじ
わかりやすい関西弁
アメージング関西弁
Kansai textbook
しゃべってみなはれ
Bunpro
jpdb
Anime/TV
ムジュラの仮面 配信
シャドウイング
セーラー服と関西弁 1巻
うちの師匠
ラブ★コン 漫画
ラブ★コン ゲーム
ラブ★コン オーディオ
New Game (Yun)

[暁のルナ]

Btw for folks reading here - do you prefer when I put stuff under details folds, or long form like this?

• Long form
• Short form
• どっちもええ / わからへん

[shitsurei]

Just thought of a few resources. I remembered that 元カレの猫を、預かりまして。 | L30?? is purportedly written in Kansai-ben. I’ve also been watching シンデレラ クロゼット S1 | L21 which isn’t like… good, but is incredibly bingable. It has a supporting character that speaks Kansai-ben. That said, I have a small fear that the show is going to end up on the “your love cured me of 女装”… it might stick the landing but also…it may not.

[暁のルナ]

@shitsurei

remembered that 元カレの猫を、預かりまして。 | L30?? is purportedly written in Kansai-ben.

I just looked through the Amazon preview and there was barely any. Maybe some of the characters speak in Osaka-ben (@Jintor review mentions it), but if the preview is indicative, it’s definitely not written in Kansai-ben

@shitsurei

I’ve also been watching シンデレラ クロゼット S1 | L21 which isn’t like… good, but is incredibly bingable. It has a supporting character that speaks Kansai-ben

Do they appear/talk a lot? And how late do they appear in the show? I’m wary bc it’s a live action romance, and I haven’t been into the ones I’ve tried, but might check it out if there’s a lot of Kansai.

I tried ウィッチウォッチ S1 | L27 bc there’s a character that appears starting from end of ep 3. But I wasn’t really into it, so that’s a no-go

@暁のルナ

Btw for folks reading here - do you prefer

Fascinating, so far nobody has voted for detail folds… And here I was worried I was being inconsiderate by not using them

[shitsurei]

@暁のルナ

Maybe some of the characters speak in Osaka-ben

Ahh maybe that’s what I was remembering.

@暁のルナ

Do they appear/talk a lot? And how late do they appear in the show?

They have a pretty large arc in the middle like 3-5 ish episodes, but have only made slight appearances in the last few episodes. The show is bearable, but I also have been watching jdramas for years so take my tolerance with a grain of salt

[暁のルナ]

Yeah, I’ll pass then. Added the Kansai tag as a minor element though, in case someone else is interested

[暁のルナ]

Found a Kansai phrasebook in JP that shows standard → Kansai for definitions and examples - basically exactly what I need!

しゃべってみなはれ 大阪弁 | L0

Some random pages:

I’ve added quite a bit to my dailies. Definitely takes a bit of pushing, and 6 is still my daily goal.

Reading ラブ★コン the way I am, where I keep writing stuff out is definitely kinda tiring, but super productive. I might wanna start taking notes of sentences to ask my teacher about, bc occasionally there’s something I don’t quite get. But maybe this phrasebook will fill in the gap enough?

It’s interesting to see how other vocab in phrases changes and/or contracts too

また会いましょう→また会おな
例 次の休日にまた会いましょう
次のやすみにまた会おな**

どちらさまですか→どなた
例 そのお方はどちらさまですか？
その人、どなた

何だ、それは→なんやそれ
例 何だ、それは？変な髪型ですね
なんやそれ？変わった髪型やなあ

Got a few nice recs that I added to my wishlist… I should probably make a proper List out of them soon

• うちの師匠はしっぽがない 1 | L33 - this one I might start reading as soon as I finish セーラー服 or 舞妓さんち 1, cuz it looks really up my alley, and seems to be mostly Kansai
  • Actually this has some affordable sets on Mercari, so I think I’ll order it when I order ラブ★コン
• 花ざかりの君たちへ 1 | L24 - looks good, but minimal Kansai

I think there may have been 1-2 more that were already on my list or something. I’ll have to check again later

[Jintor]

@暁のルナ

I just looked through the Amazon preview and there was barely any. Maybe some of the characters speak in Osaka-ben (@Jintor review mentions it), but if the preview is indicative, it’s definitely not written in Kansai-ben

It’s just a major character (the titular 猫) who speaks almost exclusively in Kansai-ben, but the narration is definitely written mostly in 標準語.

[暁のルナ]

Gotcha, thx for the info. I added the Kansai tag at 50% then (does that sound accurate?), and threw it on my list

@Jintor

but the narration is definitely written mostly in 標準語

I think that’s the case for basically anything fictional (especially modern)? まんじ is afaict a weird exception, cuz it’s basically written as someone’s journal entries… Maybe I’m wrong tho, and there’s other stuff?

[polv]

@暁のルナ

しゃべってみなはれ 大阪弁 | L0

Textbook category in Natively is expected to be using English explanation, and there is no way to rate difficulty for this. I think the only way to change category is to report to Brandon.

[polv]

@暁のルナ

under details folds, or long form like this?

I generally don’t like it too long, but this not long enough yet.

Too many details isn’t the best either.

[暁のルナ]

@polv

Textbook category in Natively is expected to be using English explanation

I probably knew at that some point, but it’s stated nowhere I guess I should have added it as nonfiction or other then? I sent in a feedback request. Thx for mentioning

@polv

I generally don’t like it too long, but this not long enough yet.

Noted, thx

[暁のルナ]

Finished 灰と幻想のグリムガル level.13 心、ひらけ、新たなる扉 | L31 - that was awful, but I did use a JP-JP dictionary for almost the whole time, and most of the time I could understand it. Some entries had too many unknown words, or were kinda obtuse, and I double checked the English (which even had a few words the JP did not). I only switched off towards the end, bc I really wanted to finish the damn book.

I think I’ll take a break and catch up with クラにか finally, before starting vol 14

Started watching audio-only:

• アベノ橋魔法☆商店街 S1 | L30?? - all Kansai. I should probably find subs tho
• 舞-HiME S1 | L27 - really love this. Language-wise, sometimes when it gets too fantasy, there’s a bit I can’t get

But otherwise, I’m appreciating that I can watch both of these audio-only, and it feels normal. Same thing with the わかりやすい関西弁 and 日本語の森 vids

With 日本語の森 I basically have to fast forward to the answers, but I did grab some useful stuff that could be summed up as:

だね→やな
だよね→やんな
だよ→やで
〜たんだ→〜てん
〜るんだ→るねん、んねん
〜んだ→やねん
なんだ→やねん

Full notes

関西弁文法

だね→やな
だよね→やんな
だよ→やで
〜たんだ→〜てん
〜るんだ→るねん、んねん
〜んだ→やねん
なんだ→やねん

明日、テストだね
うん、10時からだよね
そうだよ。今日一緒に勉強しようね

明日、テストやな
うん、10時からやんな
せやで (そうやで)。今日一緒に勉強しよな

〜んだ→やねん
なんでやねん！
なんでなんだ！(どうしてなんだ)

今からラーメン食べるんだ
今からラーメン食べるねん

うちの彼女めっちゃかわいいんだ
うちの彼女めっちゃかわいいねん

行くんだ、買うんだ、飲むんだ、書くんだ
行くねん、買うねん、飲むねん、書くねん

〜るんだ→るねん、んねん
食べるんだ、走るんだ、勉強するんだ
食べんねん、走んねん、勉強すんねん

なんだ→やねん

有名なんだ、きれいなんだ、先生なんだ
有名やねん、きれいやねん、先生やねん

今日、みんなでビール飲むんだ。
いいなー！楽しそうだね！
みんな大学の友達なんだ。一緒に行かない？

今日、みんなでビール飲むねん。
いいなー！楽しそうやな！
みんな大学の友達やねん。一緒に行かへん？

〜たんだ→〜てん
勉強したんだ
勉強してん

言ったんだ、飲むんだんだ、書いたんだ
言ってん、飲んてん、書いてん

かわいいかったんだ、おいしかったんだ
かわいかってん、おいしかってん

有名だったんだ、先生だったんだ
有名やってん、先生やってん

今日、ゆか先生会ったんだ
今日、ゆか先生会ってん

先月、結婚したんだ
先月、結婚してん

これ、めっちゃ安かったんだ
これ、めっちゃ安かってん

昨日は休みだったんだ
昨日は休みやってん

今日からみんなで飲みに行くんだ。いっしょに行かない？
今日はちょっと…昨日もお酒いっぱい飲んだんだ。
そっか…たしかに体調悪そうだね。

今日からみんなで飲みに行くねん。いっしょに行かへん？
今日はちょっと…昨日もお酒いっぱい飲んでん。
そっか…たしかに体調悪そうやな。

Which has been really helpful. As I was reading Grimgar, I was converting the sentences into Kansai as much as possible… More compulsively than intentionally. I had to keep referring back to that chart a bunch, but it was helping it stick some more.

I really like shadowing the わかりやすい関西弁 vids, and it’s helping my overall speech get a bit faster. It will be cool to eventually reach a point where that speed feels normal, rather than fast. Shadowing audiobooks would be the easiest way to develop that, if I really wanted to push it. Like being used to the speed in this vid would be really nice. It’s hard to find a lot of that sort of input (the fast, mumbly kinda)

Also I feel like I have a much clearer feeling for the pitch accent - but to be fair, I haven’t really tried shadowing 標準語 vids in the same way. I can see why ppl sometimes describe Kansai as having a musical aspect to it

I dropped most of my seasonal anime - just 2 left. Figure I can pick them back up later if I want. Have 6 eps between them, till I’m caught up

NEW GAME! -Complete Edition- 1 | L28?? feels pretty easy at this point. I’m mostly just skipping to the sections with Yun tho.

A cool thing I just learned: 小松未可子 (こまつ みかこ) who plays ユメ in 灰と幻想のグリムガル is from Mie. She even tweeted about the role: 「関西弁風であって関西弁ではないというところがわりと大事( ¯•ω•¯ #グリムガル」(Yume - who is my favorite character - speaks a mix of Kansai and gibberish, bc she mixes up words a lot. So that’s what the tweet is referring to)

[暁のルナ]

Today’s been both more and less productive than intended… I still did most of my dailies, and even did a bit of jpdb… watched some anime, and barely done any reading (tho I will start Grimgar 14 later)

Anime

• アベノ橋魔法☆商店街 S1 | L30?? ep 2 - really not sure this show will be my thing, but it’s great for the Osaka-ben
• 光が死んだ夏 S1 | L28 ep 1 - very mixed feelings, but Mie-ben, and it’s nice to hear more normal speech in an anime, rather than comedic or cutesy characters (though I love those too). So this & 舞妓さんちのまかないさん S1 | L30 are my two “they talk like normal people” series
• クレバテス-魔獣の王と赤子と屍の勇者 S1 | L29 ep 6/10 - Was good. subs definitely are helpful for catching a lot of parts, but I could roughly get by without (b/c I don’t care about the larger plot too much tbh)

Majora’s Mask Playthrough

I watched part of a really awesome playthrough of Majora’s Mask

The VTuber uses her actual voice (not synthetic), is from Kansai (Osaka?), and does really fun character voices for all the characters. It’s legit the most enjoyable playthrough I’ve watched… plus Majora’s Mask is hella nostalgic. Looking forward to watching more

jpdb

Deleted all my decks in jpdb and made a custom Kansai deck, by grabbing all the words from JMDict with Kansai, Osaka, or Kyoto tags. I did this by pulling the HTML, and grabbing the relevant lines w/ Find+Select All (Ctrl H > Alt Enter in VS Code)… and jpdb actually properly imported most of them. I’m on 281/507 rn. I’m still feeling very mixed about Bunpro as SRS, so I might just drop it for jpdb

Cdjapan order

Pricing out a Cdjapan order, and it’s very frustrating, trying to figure out what the right amount of stuff to get is. So far I’m probly going for Yurihime November, and full sets of ラブ★コン & うちの師匠はしっぽがない… but I wanna read a bit more of うちの師匠 first to be sure. Of course since those are proxy, I have no clue wth the actual shipping will be… but rn it comes out to $105.41 (DHL) or $89.78 (FedEx FICP)… and that’s before the new tariff. Hopefully FedEx is reliable, cuz I’m trying to spend less in general - and also b/c they’ll charge the flat 25% up front, rather than pay on delivery. I’m probly gonna stop collecting コミック百合姫 physicals after next month, and thus not be locked in to getting physical stuff every month. (not that I don’t love it)

Grimgar

Downloaded the Grimgar drama CDs, which will be nice to listen to. My main incentive is listening to Yume’s lines… but also I’m excited for the whole thing. I looked up some stuff about Grimgar 14, and I’m feeling very ややこしい about reading it, but I’m gonna give it a go. I basically spoiled myself on the big stuff (and wow it’s big). Otoh I’m looking forward to the two side story volumes that follow. So if I’m not into it, I’ll either alternate or just skip the book & only read the final chapter or two. Hopefully I’ll enjoy it though… I’m really concerned about where the series will head in Vol 15. There’s already one thing I know I’m gonna be upset at the author for… but w/e. Update: only 14% in, but so far vol 14 is off to a much better start

Random Vocab

Some random words I learned today:

• うろ覚え - vague memory of xyz (the MM VTuber used it, cuz like me, she half remembers the game from when she was a kid… but not enough to be useful )
• ばら寿司 - type of sushi with a variety of ingredients sprinkled on the rice - It was in the Kansai deck