Luna's Learning Log

Conversation Lesson

Had conversation lesson w/ T-sensei today, and we went over passive form a ton, which was very helpful. Watched parts of a Big Bang Theory episode, and came up w/ sentences based on that. I really like this sort of format… cuz that’s the sorta practice that’s useful for me - more so than free talk, at this point. He gave me a Shirobako graphic to talk about next time (or for homework? idk, I was kinda fuzzy by that point)

Sentences he had me say, during lesson

Painting は バーナデット に 見られてる

Painting は かべ に かけられてる

シェルドン は アイミー に みられている

レナード は シェルドン に 質問 を 聞かれてる

レナード は シェルドン に 質問 されてる

ボード は 持たれてる

ハワード は ふられた
ハワード は こばまれた
ハワード は 拒否された

ハワード は 女の人 に さわられている
ハワード は 女の人 に ふれらている

女の人 は みんな に きかれている

バーナデット は アメフト みたい に あつかわれられてる

バーナデット は 父 に Kiss された

ハワード は かのじょ の 父 に 握手 された されてる

受動態 は あんまり 使われてない

ハワード は 父 に バカ に されてる

ハワード は はは に 叫ばれている

ハワードの母 は ハワードに叱られている

その時の食事は永遠みたいだった って ハワード に 教えられている
その時の食事は永遠みたいだった って ハワード に 伝えられている
”その時の食事は永遠みたいだった” って ハワード は 言われてる

In that sense, I should try the Miku Real Japanese shadowing exercises again, to work on stuff like this… but just shadowing Kansai stuff is enough rn

Shadowing

So far I’ve been shadowing:

  • Yume track - pretty well. I’d say like 90-95% accurate on normal speed, without much difficulty. Mostly just timing in the second half. Also my って is not quite articulated right 100% of the time. But it’s close
  • Kansaibenkyou - the two conversations. I can keep up with like the beginning or different parts of them. But other parts I stumble over the words (rather than the intonation) b/c it’s just too fast - and that’s at .75x!!
  • セトウツミ - basically same deal as Kansaibenkyou, but sometimes even faster
  • わかりやすい関西弁 - these are great, b/c they’re short phrases, repeated twice, rather than full conversations.

I just went through the vid w/ the 1-mora words (which always get extended to two mora). So I both had to pay attention to both the 2-mora intonation, and sentence level. I can usually get sentence level fairly quickly - but often only after hearing it. With the vocab words themselves, I’m very mixed. I especially have trouble with LH pitch pattern - which it feels like basically goes up by a micro-tone, before hitting the half-step, on the following mora (比喩だけが… idk whether it’s actually equivalent to a micro/quarter tone - but it’s easy for me to conceptualize it like that)… Actually it looks like even the HLL pattern often follows this “micro tone instead of half-step”, at least on a word-level. In sentences, the intonation certainly rises and falls more than that

I wish there was a Minimal Pairs test, but for Kansai intonation patterns. Anyway, I’m gonna start writing out the vocab intonation from the shadowing vids, in the comment below this one, so I can reference them outside of the videos themselves. I’d love to eventually write out the sentence level intonation… but that feels like I’d be getting in over my head. So I’ll stick to vocab for now.

Edit: I just figured out how I can shadow ラブ★コン stuff, without driving myself crazy trying to make clips… Subs2srs exists literally for this purpose :sweat_smile: So I’ll make an anki deck for each episode, and just suspend the cards that aren’t useful. Update: Tho some of the lines don’t do so well, b/c there’s a lot of overlapping dialogue. Might try giving the next ep some padding, if I manage to get through this one, at any point. This will definitely help with the fast speech… The faster speech here is like around the normal speech rate for the other stuff I’ve been shadowing so far :sweat_smile:

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Kansai Intonation Patterns (in-progress)

Based on わかりやすい関西弁 channel vids. I haven’t checked what the “official” pattern names are. Also found this: 甲種日本語アクセント辞典

3泊形容詞 - HLL

These seem to all be HLL, so I’m not writing them out. I wonder to what extent this holds up on a sentence level

4泊形容詞 HHLL (majority)

Exceptions:

しんどい HHLL / LHHL / LLHL - 地域によって (Osaka seems to be LLHL)

5泊形容詞 HHHLL (mostly)

地域や活用により異なる。殆ど大阪弁

Words that can be either HHHLL or LLHLL

飽きやすい (あきやすい) (Osaka is LLHLL)
青白い (あおじろい)
ありえない
ありがたい
だらしない

Numbers

1, 3, 6, 7 (なな & しち), 8, 10 are opposite from 標準語
4(よん), 9 are identical

いち HL
にー LH
さん HL
よん HL
しー LL
ごー HH
ろく HL
なな HL
ひち HL
はち HL
きゅう HL
じゅう LH

色のアクセント

L…H

赤い色 LLLH
オレンジ色 LLLLLH
緑色 みどりいろ
青い色
水色 みずいろ
黒色 くろいろ
白色 しろいろ

H…H

ぴんくいろ HHHHH
黄色 きいろ
灰色 はいいろ
銀色 ぎんいろ
金色 きんいろ

時間のアクセント

1〜9

3泊ならLHL
LHL
1時 LHL
7時 ひちじ ななじ

2泊ならHL

Ex: 2時 HL

10〜12 H…L

10時 HHL
11時

季節

言葉 関西弁 標準語
春 LH HL
夏 HL LH
秋 LH HL
冬 HL LH

同音異義語のアクセント

橋 HL
箸 LH
端 HH

空き HH
雨 LH
飴 HH

I got lazy about the rest of these. Will have to come back to… Tho they’re probably on a table somewhere

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聞き取り

I dropped 光が死んだ夏 S1 | L29 cuz the horror elements were too annoying, and I don’t like the vibe of the leads. Possible I’d pick it up again someday… but I have so much audio material at this point, it seems unlikely. I would like to find more anime & games with lots of kansai dialogue. 二ノ国 has this, and if I wasn’t playing 空の軌跡, I’d probably be playing that rn (tho that character is kinda challenging to understand, since it’s very 役割語).

アベノ橋魔法☆商店街 S1 | L28 feels a bit easier now. It feels less like “Oh they’re speaking Kansai”, and more like “yeah, I can mostly understand this”

Wanna watch セトウツミ S1 | L30?? eventually, but I still have all the manga volumes & audiobooks… so no rush. I do have some other shows on my wishlist I can watch once I’m done w/ アベノ橋… but there’s also the Vtuber stuff too

VTubers

I found a bunch of Kansai-speaking vtubers I like:

In terms of Kansai immersion, I’m not sure how much watching the text-heavy vids makes sense. Oddly I’m at a point where I can tell conversationally when ppl are speaking Kansai-ben, but couldn’t necessarily tell you if someone was reading something written in standard, with Kansai intonation.

シャドーイング

ラブ★コン

I’ve been shadowing ラブ★コン S1 | L26 ep 1 (thanks to subs2srs) a ton. That’s been really interesting. It’s got me looking up words on 甲種日本語アクセント辞典 pretty frequently… to the point where I’ve been considering if I should just create a “kansai pitch accent” anki deck, and add words to that as I go… but that sounds like overkill. Anyway it’s a great source to shadow, since it has a lot of different speech styles, due to varied characters & humor. I’m probly like 30% through ep 1, and decently well with keeping up with the fast lines - but some of them are a real push. The vocal registers are all over the place, depending on the character, so that’s been a fun dimension too. I think IRL, I don’t generally use a particularly wide vocal range (in English or Japanese), so it’s a fun way to get outside the box a bit. The school teacher’s voice is pretty challenging, both bc of speed & bc he uses his voice in an odd way. Also rolling R’s is

I’ve noticed I have trouble with losing speedな行. Also 〜に来て or 早よ来てもうた, and I hold my おお or おう too long, or accidentally hold out single vowels longer, where they would have been double in standard (ex: ちょっと買いもんしよかな思て, I say しよう and 思うて[1]). Some of this is probably just like using muscles a lot… I wonder in a day or few how it will be. Even today, shadowing the Grimgar Yume track felt easier in the fast sections than it has in the past.

I also have trouble when the pitch goes up, mid sentence - especially if it’s brief - just something I haven’t internalized yet. Anyway, lots of places I lose speed - and same thing for reading aloud in general, plenty of places where I end up having to pause.

Also some of the consonants definitely feel like they’re articulated differently, or in different places - like further back in the mouth/throat than standard? But maybe this is just me not having shadowed standard enough - so I’m not actually speaking that in the most native-way? I’m not sure. Also I definitely have an issue with って there’s something about it that’s different, but I can’t tell if it’s whether it’s: articulation point, intonation, accent, etc. Sometimes I get it right, and sometimes I don’t.

[1] Interestingly acc to Wikipedia, there are other places that vowels are elongated: 1拍語ではほぼ規則的に「木→きい」「目→めえ」のように母音が長音化し、特定の語では「やいと(灸)→やいとお」「路地→ろおじ」「去年→きょおねん」など1拍以上の語や「寝たい→ねえたい」など語幹が1拍の動詞も長音化することがある[24]. The JP Kansai-ben page is written so much more comprehensibly than the EN, which tries to add in all the fancy linguistic terms and IPA (which is way more confusing than ひらがな lol)… well to be fair the JP has a bunch of linguistic terms too, but they take up like 3-4 characters max. There’s definitely places where it’s like “why didn’t you just use a damn table?!” tho

読みへの影響

All the focus on intonation has been messing with my reading, when I’m going through ラブ★コン, cuz I keep looking the intonation up for various words… but that’s still very helpful in the larger sense of getting better at Kansai ben… which is why I’m reading the manga in the first place (I mean I love ラブ★コン too, but it’s feeling more 普通 at this point). Speaking of feeling 普通 I think I’m getting to a point where

Also I’ve been shadowing the YouTube関西弁講座-大阪おっちゃんねる- vids a lot - both the formal portions, and just repeating what the guy says. Doing the ラブ★コン cards has been helping me be more patient with the kansaibenkyou conversations - to work on each line.

He has a playlist 『源さん』大阪弁雑談 that’s him & his friend talking about random stuff. It’s not necessarily the most exciting content, but it’s really excellent listening practice. He talks normally, and his friend talks pretty fast and rough (not like delinquent rough, but like “casual guy” speech style).

Wikipedia, 語彙, and improving formal knowledge

One thing that’s come up while reading or listening to things, is that there’s a whole bunch of regional terms (like place or region names) I don’t know. Otoh my JP grammar terms are pretty decent, but not like automatic. So I decided to make a jpdb deck out of relevant parts of the 近畿方言 - Wikipedia article - which netted me 957/1482 words (72.13% Coverage). Doing that by local frequency instead of chronologically - though I feel like it doesn’t matter either way. I thought about the 大阪弁 - Wikipedia page, but it’s waaaay longer, and actually looked less immediately appealing.

While I don’t usually go for much formal grammar learning, the 近畿方言 has a ton of useful info. A lot of it is stuff I’ve listened to/shadowed via the わかりやすい関西弁 vids, but going over it visually can’t hurt. 京阪式アクセント - Wikipedia has useful info too.

Anyway, idk how much time I’ll give to this… but I think it’s a good idea to expand my vocab and geography knowledge

おもろい言葉

わやくちゃ old ppl version of めちゃくちゃ
~やん attached to names of friends - mostly school age boys, but older ppl w/ close friends too
ぼちぼち instead of そろそろ
注釈 ちゅうしゃく Notes, comments
撥音 はつおん the sound of ん
促音 そくおん geminate consonant (っ)
参照 さんしょう reference, bibligographical reference
拗音 ようおん contracted sound, ex きゃ
普及 ふきゅう diffusion, spread, popularization
子音 しいん consonant
粗野 そや rustic, rude, vulgar, rough
音節 おんせつ syllable
語中 ごちゅう middle of a word
下一段 しもいちだん conjugation of ichidan verbs ending in “eru”
格助詞 かくじょし case-making particle (ga, no, wa, ni)

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レッスンたち

Had first lesson w/ Ne-sensei. Basically free talk. She was surprised I’ve never been to Japan, based on my speaking level - which is certainly a nice thing to hear :slight_smile: The hour went by pretty quickly - very easy to talk to! There were a few times she pointed out that “x would be y in Kansai-ben”, but mostly we just talked.

使い方

On one hand I feel like I slipped in and out of Kansai vs standard grammar patterns a lot - especially with ~ない forms (incl じゃない tho I’m usually good with やのうて, but I forget 〜やん or 〜ちゃう a lot), or things like イヤだ (instead of イヤや) - or various “you could say this either way, but the more こてこて way would be x” sorta things (tho tbh 大阪府 isn’t always as こてこて). She’s also the first teacher (of 3 so far) who stayed more 丁寧語, instead of using the more タメ語 style, which probly had something to do with it. Otoh I feel like I was overall (probably) doing pretty well with intonation (which she didn’t comment on either way, at any point), and was generally able to communicate fairly fluidly. I did also try to use 出る (instead of 現れる) a bit more (not 関西弁 related), and incorporated ぎょうさん more (instead of 沢山). Still, I guess there’s various conversation “shortcuts” (くせ? :sweat_smile: ) that I’ve built up over the last 2 years that aren’t gonna just go away after a month… even with the shadowing + little bit of texting I’ve been doing… まあ、もっと頑張らなあかんな.

スタイル

I definitely feel like I express myself a bit differently in Kansai-ben, and I’m a fan of it. For w/e reason it feels a bit easier to open up, and kind of play around with how and where I express or emphasize things? Maybe it’s just that I’m exposing myself to a lot of different things I wasn’t before? It will be interesting to see if I still have this perception in another month or two

これからのレッスン

I booked a next lesson with her, and two other teachers (in mid to late October). Conversation lessons are relatively cheap, so I figured I may as well try taking with lots of different people. One teacher is from Kyoto, and the other from Kobe - so maybe I’ll get to experience some of the differences. A month ago I figured it was best to stick to one region. But at this point, I think I have enough of a base that it’s fine to branch out. If I end up liking multiple teachers, I’ll have to space out lessons

Decided to book a 3rd lesson with Na-sensei, and use that to make a final choice about whether or not to continue. I think rather than doing formal grammar stuff at the beginning, I’d rather just have a “how do I say xyz thing that I want to say/have written/am reading in Kansai-ben” portion.

ニュースを読む

Also decided to start reading a news article each day, via the Todaii Japanese app or maybe stuff on MATCHA - 日本の観光・文化・ホテル情報を世界に届けるメディア . Both would be good for vocab expansion, and I think should probably help me with talking a bit. The matcha articles are much more appealing, but the Todaii app has built-in touch lookups + audio - both of which are very helpful!

So far all the N3-labeled ones I tried were super easy, with few unknown words. The N2 ones vary btwn easy and “wth am I even looking at/listening to rn??” - which is basically a domain vocab issue. I should probably do a bunch of N3 in those categories

I was trying to see if I could find any news sites or blogs that are written in Kansai-ben… I figure there’s gotta at least be some blogs out there somewhere. I did find a good list of Kansai-based newspapers at least. So I might try reading stuff from those too

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Lesson with Y-sensei went well, despite sleep-deprivation. She said my intonation has been gradually improving. Also pointed out that if I used ending particles more, it would sound more 関西っぽい (I largely leave these out in 標準語 too). 名探偵コナン came up, and she mentioned that the character in there sounded super weird to her when she first saw it (though as time got on, she got desensitized to it, so now she probly wouldn’t notice), but otoh the Kansai-ben in ラブ★コン is very realistic… which was nice to have confirmed, since it’s the main thing I’m shadowing.

One random thing got that got mentioned is that そっか intonation is HL… which in retrospect seems obvious (since a lot of stuff is H…L), but actually hearing it felt really different. On a fun note, she also started reading 自転車屋さんの高橋くん S1 | L24 and is actually further along than me. I was going to pause it, but some folks at WK are trying out a Speed Run Book Club, and planning to read 3 vols. So I’ll join for that. Maybe I’ll be able to spot the differences btwn Kansai & Gifu dialects on my own this time around.

I feel like I’ve been playing too much 空の軌跡 lately… it’s good reading & listening practice - especially trying to read quickly enough during the silent scenes - and I’m understanding the mechanics language a lot better now… but there’s still plenty of non-dialogue time, and it’s not Kansai… so I feel like I’m “cheating on” my Kansai learning :joy: Anyway, I gave myself a pass for it today, cuz 3 hrs of sleep… but like I still could have just had a podcast on or something, for low-effort Kansai immersion, for a lot of that time. JRPGs are dangerous for me lol

Found another Kansai Vtuber, this time playing 時のオカリナ

Edit: I’m not sure how much she really uses it in her streams tho

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Today’s news articles:

N3:

N2:

They have reading comprehension questions at the bottom that I’ll try doing on a day where I’m not so tired

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毎日新聞 has news for middle schoolers 15歳のニュース | 毎日新聞 and for elementary school children 6さいからのニュース | 毎日新聞 to get into the mood. But for me most of those topics weren’t interesting enough.

I preferred topics of the real news, when I still read on their site. Until some years ago, registered users could read many more whole articles, like really long interviews, for free than today.

Then suddenly they thought that they should rather earn money. But there still were some completely free articles, when I last checked, and most articles have free teasers.

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Wouldn’t 15歳 be high school? I’m in a good groove with Todaii I think, but good to know. I seem to be able to read these comfortably enough. So I guess that means I’m at a high school reading level at this point. The one article I looked at on the 6歳 was easy reading (as one would hope)

Understandable when you’re a newspaper/site. The teasers seem to be pretty long

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まいったな~ … It looks like I’ll be working on my ヘブライ語 again after all. Looking at doing about 10-15 min a day, HE-JP. (I’m spending a lot more time with it this week. But most of that isn’t really “learning” per se)

There aren’t really very many resources for this - since what I’m after rn is liturgical Hebrew. So anyway it’s a more manual process than learning Japanese. I’m focusing on vocab over grammar for now.

From the little bit I did the other day… it’s interesting to see how Hebrew words translate into sometimes very different things in English & Japanese. Ex:

ヘブライ語 日本語 英語
גומל 返済 doer, benefactor
ומשיע (from ישע) 救済者、救世主 Deliver(er)
עמדה 立場、姿勢 stand(ing)

The translations from both languages capture the essence, in different ways. So it’s interesting that they don’t necessarily match

I got messages from like 3 different iTalki teachers (whose profiles I visited)… and like, I’m interested, but little to no free time for the next 2-3 weeks (during which I’m doing a trial lesson w/ 2 different teachers anyway). It was interesting seeing the different ways they worded things, as well as seeing how I could word things better, each time I replied to one.

Otherwise, hit 9.5 hrs with October 2025 Listening Challenge - #2 by 暁のルナ so far - not that that’s a surprise.

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Since I started learning Japanese I have always lived in Kansai so for me Kansaiben is just “normal” Japanese and the more Kantou style way of speaking is something from media. I think that speaking a dialect gives you an extra layer of choices when it comes to formality and closeness. If you speak, for example, Osakaben, then you can have an extra level of casual speech and you can also use the “softer” Osaka-ified version of keigo. So I think what you are noticing is a real thing!

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Lesson with Y-sensei today was a huge relief. I’ve been feeling a bit off the past few days, and also stressed by various things - so it was a relief to talk about some of it. We talked about a mix of stuff: ユダヤ教の今週の祝日と習慣と掟、日本とアメリカの色々な祭り、仏教、ヘブライ語の方言と時代によって違ってるころ、関西弁と岐阜弁、イントネーションなど。I did ask her towards the end if she new of any news publications that are written in 関西弁, but seems like that sort of thing doesn’t really exist - tho some segments of local news would have 関西弁 intonation. I figured that was the case… I’ll have to try to find some blogs or something. Also I mentioned that I can tell when stuff in 自転車屋さんの高橋くん | L24 doesn’t match 関西弁. I noticed when speaking that I’m still using a lot of ない instead of へん/ひん, and なぜか instead of 何でやろ and other various things that are more 言い回し(?) 言い方(?) than 文法 per se. I also keep teetering on おる vs ある - usually I’ll use おる, but sometimes ある instead - and I haven’t really decided which to use, generally. In a general speaking sense, I feel like I generally get stuck less, but also definitely have various 悪い癖 that still need to be ironed out. I definitely feel like my intonation is different than it used to be.

I did some ラブ★コン shadowing earlier, and even though I wasn’t feeling 100%, it felt much easier than the other day. Some of the phrases I was still a little off, but like it was a much smaller difference. I finally found a JP comedian I really like (陣内智則) thanks to someone posting in the what are you watching thread. So that’s some great immersion to. And I found yet another にじさんじ Vtuber, 戌亥とこ. Her accent is about as こてこて as 早瀬走 (she even says 大きに repeatedly in one of her vids :joy:), maybe slightly more. - and she also talks in a normal voice, and has relaxing BGM. I’m listening to a conversation with the two of them, and otherwise checking out her other playlists. I really need to write up a “Luna’s Kansai Resources” post one of these days

I was looking at my 2025 goals update from August, and like most of it has just become totally irrelevant, with the switched focus to Kansai… I sorted wanted to make an update post now… but I think it’s not the right time for it. I’ll probly just wait for the end of the year at this rate.

I’m looking forward to finishing up some books (and clubs) in the next 2 weeks. Granted クラにか will just be replaced with Home Thread for 凜として弓を引く (Beginner LN club) - Starts October 19 - but that will be honestly be a huge relief. I’m looking forward to something new & not chained to a schedule. Speaking of not chained to a schedule 高橋さん club has been cool, but I’ve been making slower than usual progress (busy & not always feeling well). And I feel kinda torn, cuz I like the series, but it’s a bit of an interruption with the Kansai stuff… but at least the dialect is fairly similar. Anyway, I realized the deadline to finish is the 13th… which there’s more than enough time for rn.

I took 灰と幻想のグリムガル level.17 いつか戦いの日にさらばと告げよう | L31 and 百合オタに百合はご法度です! ? 2 webアクション | L24 off my Reading list for now. I’d left them up so I don’t forget about them, but like I haven’t touched them, and it’s confusing enough to find stuff to update it, with the 15 other books I’m reading rn. Which is largely why I’m looking forward to finishing stuff… that and just like I miss the “I finished this” sense of accomplishment, and dopamine rush… It’s a little weird not being the “you went through that fast!” person lately. Also took 舞妓さんちのまかないさん 2 | L25, 極主夫道 1 , and はなものがたり 1 | L30 (which I haven’t even started) off for now. I’ll definitely read them all, I just don’t like having such a huge pile. The original idea behind “a few pages of a lot of things at once, each day” was largely b/c I was worried about running out of material… but like I have no shortage of that at this point. So I’m gonna

Anyway, some books/manga I can finish this week or next (and not continue to the next one):

That will leave me with:

  • 4 manga
  • 3 textbooks
  • 1 novel (when the book club starts)

Finishing まんじ will be such a relief. I almost dropped it earlier. The plot’s gotten really つまらん at this point, but like it’s just 10-15 min a day, so it’s worth it for the language learning. I’m definitely thinking of going back and shadowing the beginning at some point. Unlike everything else I’m shadowing, it involves narration… so it would probably uniquely useful

Anyway, I’ve been feeling pretty off-balance with my JP studies the last few days (other obligations, not feeling great, too much 空の軌跡). I can’t wait for a week and a half from now, when everything’s back to normal

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Were you already living in Kansai when you started learning? How did you learn/what did you learn from? Don’t suppose you know of any “Learn Japanese” resources that are written in Kansai-ben? (I assume it doesn’t exist, but I’d love to be wrong)

I think this is definitely a part of it. Thx for pointing it out.

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I moved to Japan for work transfer thing so started learning Japanese because of that. I ended up enjoying it so here I am!

I learnt Japanese in general through bruteforcing reading and listening and speaking and doing millions of lookups. For early grammar I jumped between resources and I also did about 8k vocab cards on Anki before abandoning it. I never did kanji recognition cards but I played with kanji writing a little but never consistently.

For Kansaiben, I mostly have just learnt it via osmosis from my friends and people around me in general. Generally I will just ask someone what they mean if I don’t understand something or I will google it so didn’t learn systematically. If everyone around you is always saying せやな then you are just going to start saying it (笑). As far as intonation goes that is also osmosis. My pitch accent is still rough in spots but is a mix of Osaka, standard Japanese, and foreigner. I find accent stuff a little boring though so have never actively worked on it as it keeps naturally improving without intervention. One day I may focus on it.

If you’re confident enough in your Japanese then there are loads of books about Kansaiben aimed at native speakers in any large bookshop here, normally leaning towards the linguistics side of things. Having looked over this thread I think you have found a lot of resources already (like this guy you already found is very good for Osakaben).

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Cool. Out of curiosity, how long did it take till you felt comfortable with it? (However you’d define comfortable)

Probably about where I’m at, at this point :sweat_smile: As a total aside… Kansai intonation is mildly affecting my Hebrew intonation :sweat_smile: Not to an extent that matters, I was just a bit amused

That’s basically been my approach for the last 4 years, until now. I’m much better with learning from input or imitation than what formal pattern something is. I do like shadowing stuff from like anime or the channel you linked before tho, since it doubles as actual speaking practice.

Right… I was thinking more “resources for foreigners who are learning Japanese for the first time”. Like instead of “learn Japanese by learning Tokyo dialect” (what we almost all do), “learn Japanese by learning Osaka dialect”. I think it would be cool if that existed, but practically I get why it doesn’t

As linguistics-heavy stuff goes… I simultaneously think it’s really cool, and am not very inclined to actually read it, even in English.

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I finished 空の軌跡 and クラにか 1. Such a relief to be done with 空の軌跡! I can finally rebalance my JP time. I do feel like I probably gained something unique from playing it that I don’t gain from just reading, but still in glad to partially have my time for normal reading back!

I had the text on auto the whole time. So at the very least, I got to practice reading at speed. If I’d been reading intensively, it would have taken me like another 30 hrs, I bet. Anyway, a lot of scanning to get the general meaning, even if I couldn’t sound out of know all the words on the fly.

I’m down to 10 reads, with 3 of them being easily finishable (まんじ、今日はまだ普通になれない、クラにか 8). So by the end of the weekend, I’ll be down to 6 or 7

Discovered カーネーション S1 | L30?? which is 151 eps of Kansai-Ben. That’s gonna be a long trip lol. Wonder how many weeks it will take to get through

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I’d say I still don’t feel comfortable :sweat_smile: Living here means I am very often confronted with my deficiencies during conversations. I think I just have pretty high standards for what is an acceptable level of comprehension and what media should be comprehensible in general as well. Conversation is the main killer of me ever saying I am comfortable with my level though.

That would be pretty cool actually.

You know I will have to come back to this thread in the future to steal your lists of Kansaiben media. I normally don’t focus on it too much, besides maybe having some preferred podcasts with comedians from Kansai, but if or when I want to improve the consistency of my intonation I’ll be wanting to branch out.

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Watched a few vids from マリマリマリー and 私立パラの丸高校 in lesson with T-sensei today. He explained some of the slang & cultural context I was missing for various phrases. Definitely sheds some light on why I don’t get a lot of JP humor - it’s subtle & using context I just don’t have (I assume this happens in any language). Not exactly sure how to work on that… but it’s also not something I particularly need to work on, so :woman_shrugging:

Watching vids seems to work well enough when I’m sleep deprived. So I watched a few クレバテス-魔獣の王と赤子と屍の勇者 S1 | L29 eps - though I’m not as excited about it as I was. Also watched a few アベノ橋魔法☆商店街 S1 | L28 eps - which I wouldn’t mind subs for. I think I will probably add this as background listening, when I finish the audio from ラブ★コン. I will have 4 eps of that left.

For next lesson with Na-sensei, we’re gonna verbally translate something from standard into Kansai-ben for the first half. Was thinking of ママレード・ボーイ 1 | L22 - which I’ve read like the first chapter of - but it could be anything really. It’s almost 2 weeks till our next lesson anyway. So plenty of time to think about it.

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日本語

エセ関西弁

I listened to 2 clips from the Yakuza game earlier… One with a Yakuza Kansai character, and the other with a character who has a fake Kansai accent… The latter was definitely a bit 違和感を感じる… Which is cool that I can differentiate… So I finally decided to look up Hattori Heiji, who seems to be the poster child for エセ関西弁, and yeah I can hear that his intonation is kinda off… Someone even made a video analyzing it: https://youtu.be/KASbB4CNCz4?si=6cXgWaow2HLfbnxf … Someone also made a parody vid of it that’s kind of cute: https://youtu.be/4wF06Rcex9U?si=mUPrPazFOAtj-U_X

喋ってる人ら

Met another Japanese learner IRL last night. He’s not quite as advanced as me, but I did throw in a bit of Japanese while we were talking, and even that little bit was nice. Which I guess means I should probably try to find IRL ppl to speak with. It seems there’s some local groups here - online and in-person, so maybe I’ll try one out, one of these weeks. Kinda depends on how busy lesson schedule ends up being

アウトプット

I was watching some of the vids aimed at intermediate learners earlier, like https://youtu.be/u2LlWvdI-Co?si=jiYxTb3KAa1cQ_oQ and https://youtu.be/h-07egmX-M0?si=Mj37nwiysM_WrS7z … But this time rather than listening with comprehension in mind, listening with output in mind… So like taking them as examples of “how to say xyz in Japanese”… Which I guess textbooks are good for too. I’ll be starting up on that again today :slight_smile:

I do also want to start reading more Wikipedia or other articles about parts of my life that I’d like to be able to talk about more fluidly (音楽、ユダヤ教、アニメなどのあらすじ、etc) so that I can better describe things in conversation.

日本に行ったら (多分、したくへんけど)

The topic of “do you want to go to Japan” comes up often, when I tell people I’m learning. Also a surprising amount of people I know either have gone, are planning to go, have relatives who’ve gone, etc. Anyway I was talking to a friend last night, who would have some similar challenges visiting as I would… And one interesting difference that came up was that when I think of Japan, I tend to think of cultural/historical stuff, whereas he (and maybe others) thinks more about the modern culture and technology and stuff like that… Which never even crossed my mind. Anyway with stuff like traveling (anywhere), I tend to think of the negatives/hard parts. In any case, I don’t have time or money for something like that rn, even if I was inclined.

ニュース

I read 日本の「情」と「法」の考え方 and テクノロジーと私たちの生活の変化, which are listed as N2 articles in the Todaii app, and understood it perfectly well. So I guess that means all the other N2 articles on there I’ve had trouble with, are simply a matter of domain vocab, rather than some other deeper difference I was missing. Good to know

ヘブライ語

Hebrew-Japanese continues to be very manual. I started playing around with the apps for modern Hebrew (Mondly works well for me. FunEasyLearn is ok. Drops is a little grating). A lot of it is familiar, since I learned a bit in the past. It’s so very different from the (liturgical) Hebrew I’m used to though, so it’s hard to get my brain to switch gears (much harder than 関東→関西). Most of the material is too practical to have much practical use for me :stuck_out_tongue: but I figure it all goes together eventually. Also it’s cool that I know Japanese well enough that learning Hebrew in Japanese feels natural :slight_smile:

Otherwise I finished making Anki cards for אהבת עולם earlier. It’s still a lot of effort, I don’t really have a solid, consistent dictionary to use, but slowly feeling less tiring. The dictionary I do have is Ok, but doesn’t always have words

I also did a bit of reading the perasha & haftara portions along to a 聖書 translation (based on Latin tho)… Which is as good as it gets, since there’s no תנך translation to Japanese afaict. So there’s gonna be some differences, but 殆ど同じ for the parts I was reading. Anyway I can understand the Japanese better than the Hebrew, and sometimes it’s clearer than the English (translation is hard :joy:). Other times, I needed the English to fully get the Japanese. Ideally I’d do Anki every week for this… But just doing the tefilla vocab is enough already, and a lot of that will also show up in the perashiyoth anyway… すべての道はローマに通ず

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I finished watching カーネーション S1 | L27 - which is 100% in Osaka-ben, and I comfortably understood almost all of it (with subs). The older male characters were pretty challenging to understand at the beginning, but I got used to it after a bit. I think in terms of really hearing intonation & realistic speech, this has been the best resource so far. Good chance I’ll rewatch it (or at least parts), for shadowing and sentence construction purposes, in the near future.

Anyway it’s been almost my sole Kansai input for the last few days. So it will be interesting to pick other things back up again

I’m thinking about trying to do some sort of daily writing (typing) in Japanese. Something like a diary… Maybe I should just make it like “write at least one sentence a day”. It will of course also double as Kansai-ben practice. Alternately, I could just write JP versions of learning log posts… Idk. In any case, I should go to sleep 笑

JP version (I’ll put under fold in the future)

カーネーションっていうのドラマはよう観終わった。そのドラマは100%大阪弁であたしがほとんどの喋りは難なく分かった(字幕ありけど)。最初はおっさんキャラらの話し方はわかりにくいが、淡々わかったようになった。イントネーションと現実的な話し方にについて、いっちゃんええ参考と思うやで。多分遠からずでシャドーイングの為にもう一回観るやろ。

先日からあたしの関西弁インプットはそれだけさかい、もう一度他のメディアも使うのはおもろいやろ。

日記を書くかな〜って考えてる。それとも、最低限一日1章を書くとかラーニングログの邦訳を書くとか。同時にそのことは関西弁練習を務められる。

とにかく、寝らな あかん。

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Was listening to a 大阪弁おっちゃんねる video (around 10:14), and he finally articulated the thing that’s different about 関西弁 & 標準語 that I haven’t seen written anywhere!!

「関西と関東とでは声の発声方法の出し方が微妙に違うんです。まあ、言うたら、関東は舌をしっかり使って口で話す印象。大して、関西は舌をリラックスされて喉で話す。」

He also summed it up with the following image:

I’m still surprised I haven’t seen that articulated anywhere else

Edit: and in this one they were talking about how it’s hard to type in Kansai-ben on LINE, due to auto complete. Different people deal with it differently

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