Native Learner's Learn Natively Language Learning Log

I usually just lurk on forums, but I want to be more active on here. I don’t know what else to post, so have a language log.

I know that this post is super long, but I have a decade and a half of setup to get through and only one post to do it. I’m not normally this rambley, honest.

Previous Japanese experience
Junior high/High school

I started learning Japanese on my own in junior high/high school because I got way into anime.
I honestly didn’t spend too much time actually studying. I mostly spent my days watching anime or random vocaloid videos on Youtube, but I would still credit this early phase with solidifying my interest with the language and culture.
Before, I was only interested in anime. After, I realized that learning a language for its own sake was fun and interesting. (Even if I didn’t have the willpower to actually stick with it at the time.)

College courses

Eventually, I took Japanese classes in college. This is also about when I mostly stopped watching anime. I went from watching hours per day, to maybe watching a single show every couple of months.

In the 3-5 years before college I did manage to make some progress. I had about half a semester headstart from my previous study.

I unquestionably would not be where I am with Japanese if it were not for my college courses. I absolutely needed the structure that they provided. I was forced to learn the language because my grades and my degree relied on me learning the course material.

The dark days of Anki

After 3 semesters of Japanese, I stopped taking classes. For the better half of a decade I barely touched the language. I couldn’t bring myself to open a textbook on my own, no matter how much I wanted to learn. It was so much easier to waste time online than it was to study. I tried using Anki to memorize kanji and vocab, but I couldn’t stick to it for more than a couple days at a time.

There were some よつばと! and のんのんびより manga that I had bought while taking classes, which I lazily went through some volumes of, but I stopped reading them entirely by the time I graduated.

My Japanese journey quickly devolved into re-trying Anki, quickly stopping because I found it absolutely mind-numbing, then forgetting about Japanese for several months or years before trying Anki again.

Finding Learn Natively

Eventually, I discovered comprehensible input. It was a neat idea, but watching native content was daunting, so I didn’t do it.

Cut to last September/August. I was re-watching ごちうさ and decided to try watching the second season without subs, just for kicks.

I understood practically nothing.

But! It kick-started my motivation to finally try out comprehensible input. Even if it didn’t work out, I would still have an excuse to watch some anime again.

I decided to watch the first season of ふたりはプリキュア. It’s a kids show, so I figured that it would use pretty simple language and it is a cultural phenomenon, so I was curious to see where it started.

It was instantly easier to understand than ごちうさ. I didn’t understand every word, but I was able to get by with help from English subtitles. At first, I was toggling the subtitles several times per episode, but pretty soon I spent most of the time with them off. The only parts that I really struggled with through-out were the more exposition heavy scenes, which would completely lose me.

At some point while watching プリキュア I found out about Learn Natively, which gave me exactly what I was missing: a way to find a ton of native material at my level.

With native input as my tool and Learn Natively as my resource, I finally re-started my language learning journey.

Nearly 1 year on Learn natively

This section is pretty long, but that’s because this past year or so has easily been the most productive I have ever been in language learning.

I started watching upper N4 ~ lower N3 content that I could find on Natively, with the idea of building up my Japanese ear with easier shows until my listening comprehension matched my level of theoretical knowledge.

I was never good at building up daily habits, so instead of trying to watch something every single day, I decided that I would watch an average of 2 episodes a day. If I didn’t watch anything for a few days, that was fine. I could always catch up later. This really helped to start building my Japanese learning habit. It was a lot easier to accomplish than trying to force myself to watch something every day, which meant that I could actually stick with it until it became a habit.

As December 2023 came, I made a goal for myself. I wanted to have 150 hours of content watched on natively. I went into December with a little under 100 hours watched, so I needed to watch 2 hours a day. It was the first time that I needed to force myself to be more consistent and to spend real time in the language.

I managed to enter 2024 with 157 hours!

In the new year, I had a new goal: watch something, anything, in Japanese every single day. I failed in the first month.

Overall, January was a great month for my progress. I averaged ~3.5 hours a day of watching Japanese media.

One week in January I really wanted to push myself and cross 40 hours in a week. I managed to end the week with 42 hours (an average of 6 hours a day). Unfortunately, it completely burned me out. The next day, for the first time in the new year, I didn’t watch anything.

I barely managed to watch a single episode of content a day for the next week or so because I was completely emotionally burnt from the previous week.

The only other days that I have missed have been because of life events that got in the way. This one day in January stands as a black mark on my language learning record this year.

In February I started reading some manga. I read a bit in January, but I started making it a habit in February.

In March I decided to shift my focus from listening to reading, with big results. In March alone I read more than my entire Japanese journey up to that point.

After March I slowed down my reading significantly. I was still reading every day, but usually no more than a few pages - just enough to be able to mark the day as ‘read’ on Learn Natively.

In the latter half of June, I decided that I wanted to try to read more in a week, than I had in any month before. It was a bit daunting, but I hadn’t exactly read a ton before, so it wasn’t unreasonable to attempt.

I failed.

I started off strong, but a couple days in I started reading less and less. In the end I only got a little over half-way there.

Oh well, it was a bit ambitious anyway. I can try again another time.

Unrelated, I decided that I wanted to read the rest of お兄ちゃんはおしまい!. I read the first volume the week before and couldn’t hold out anymore. I bought the rest of the volumes and blazed through them in a couple of days. To my surprise, that put me close to my total pages read for the previous week.

I gave it another shot right away and started reading whatever I thought would not burn me out (Mostly のんのんびより, because it was lower level and had furigana). I manged to read 2400 pages that week, which is more than the 2339 pages I read in March.

After failure, I happened into success.

That puts me to where I am right now.

Where I am now

First and foremost, I am in the habit of reading/watching in Japanese and I am actively enjoying what I consume. This was always the endgame of studying Japanese for me, so it is great to be at this point. I still have a long way to go, but I can enjoy the fruits of my labor already.

I am still in N3, but I have made a ton of progress in the past almost-a-year. I went from having lower-N3 knowledge but no listening ability, to mid/upper N3 knowledge and listen/reading ability. My kanji knowledge is still lower-N3, but even that is better than the N5/lower N4 that it was before.

My reading speed has also improved. Back in January/February I timed myself reading some chapters of のんのんびより and found that I was taking 1-2 minutes per page. I timed myself reading a few volumes last month and I am now only taking 35-40 seconds per page.

Finally, the last 2 weeks of June really solidified my reading habits. I was planning on taking it a bit easy with reading for the next week or two so that I wouldn’t get burnt out, but I have already read as much in the last 2 days as I used to read in a week. Going hard for a couple of weeks is what I needed to push myself into making a habit of reading more.

Going forward
Short term goals

I want need to watch Dragonball Daima as it airs as this will likely be the last time I, or anyone, will get to watch something that Akira Toriyama worked so heavily on as it’s coming out.

To that end, I have been reading and watching Dragonball in order to familiarize myself with any distinct vocabulary/speech patterns of the series.

Year-end goals
Light novels

I want to finish my first light novel by the end of the year. I am currently reading もしもの世界ルーレット あったら便利? “スペアの体”の使い方 他 | L21, but my progress has been pretty slow. It’s not that difficult, but I am half-way through the first story in it and nothing has happened yet. The prologue instantly hooked me, and how the actual book is loosing me because there is absolutely zero plot. I am finding it difficult to pick it up again.

Comprehension level

I want to have a good grasp of upper-N3 content by the end of the year and to start moving on to N2 content in a meaningful way. I’ve dabbled in some N2 content already, but it is still beyond my level at the moment.

This was my primary goal from the start of the year, and it is looking like it is in reach.

Hours watched

I want to have 500 hours watched in Japanese by the end of the year. An average of 2 episodes a day should put me there.

Initially, I wanted 1000 by year-end, but that was before I started reading as well. Now my time is split and so is my goal.

10X my total pages read this year

I want to read 10X this year compared to everything that I read before. That would put me at around 20,000 pages total.

That would require 55 pages a day for the rest of the year. It’s doable, but only if I stay consistent.

Long term goals
Speaking ability

In general, I’m not that interested in speaking/writing beyond the basics. I’m mostly interested in listening/reading.

However, I am going on a trip to Japan next year and want to be able to converse with locals in Japanese. This is still a ways off, but at some time this year or early next, I am going to start taking speaking lessons so that I can start to output in a meaningful way.

Long term comprehension

By end of next year I want to have a firm grasp of N2 level content. There will still be a ways to go in Japanese, but upper N2 would allow me to consume nearly all of the content that I am interested in without issue.

Kanji comprehension

Learning kanji will of course go hand-in-hand with learning more Japanese, but I find it much harder to learn new words if I have to memorize the reading and the meaning at the same time.

With this in mind, I plan on splitting my reading between with furigana and without furigana. Anything without furigana I am going to limit to 2-4 levels below my current maximum level with furigana. That way I will be less likely to run into as many new words and I will be able to more easily learn the kanji for words that I already know.

This gap will likely shrink as my kanji knowledge increases.

I’m sure there are things that I forgot to include, but I already spent too long typing this up and it’s already too long.

I don’t have a set schedule that I plan on updating this log on. I’ll probably just update it when I feel I have started/accomplished something of note.

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I really enjoyed reading through your journey up to this point! It’s always so cool to meet so many other people who’ve really benefited from finding Natively; it’s definitely become one of those resources for me where, if you took it away, there’s be a huge hole for me.

I really need/want to work on my own listening; I did the opposite of you and really focused on my reading first and foremost, but now I’m feeling the burn in other areas. :sweat_smile:

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100% agree. I can’t thank @brandon enough for creating and working to improve Natively. I would without question still be struggling to find the motivation to do anything in Japanese if it weren’t for the site.

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It’s really interesting to read your learning history, and see how similar it is to mine. Swap:

for music and it’s pretty much a copy paste of how I got here except that I probably took longer breaks :sweat_smile:

So take that as my own very rambly way of saying I agree with @eefara!

Amen. The site and forums are responsible for at least as much of my Japanese abilities as my undergraduate degree in the language.

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Reading update

I ended up reading a fair amount this week, though not as much as the past couple of weeks. I only finished 1 volume of manga, but I read a fair amount of 8-10 different volumes.

My reading was almost exclusively the first volumes of different series. I wanted to find some series to purchase during the next big Bookwalker sale. I have plenty of unread manga already, but it’s mostly without furigana (which I am burnt out on atm) or is part of a small number of long-running shounen series.

I want more series to read at a time because that makes it easier to read more. Even if I don’t feel like reading a given series, there are a half dozen others to choose from.

Here is the list of what I intend to buy if anyone is curious. Probably won’t buy everything at once. That’s too much money.

I passed 11,000 total pages read this week and fully expect to pass 10,000 pages read for 2024 sometime this month.

Watching update

I didn’t watch much this week. I did watch something in Japanese every day, but for several days I only watched 1 or 2 episodes of リコーダーとランドセル | L18, which are only 3 minutes each. I didn’t even break 2 hours of watch time for the entire week. I’ll definitely try to do better in the future.

Also, some things about my journey/where I am that I forgot to mention in my first post but that I feel are worth not ignoring:

Comprehending simpler Japanese

I can understand most N4 and some select low N3 content as if it were in English when listening. I definitely still miss some words, but my brain isn’t registering it as a foreign language. I won’t even notice that I missed some words at times because my brain is just filling in the gaps.

I noticed this happening some time ago and it feels great to be at the point where I am fully absorbing the language without any processing, even if it is only for simple shows.

I’m not nearly at that point with reading however. I have noticed that I am taking less time processing what I am reading, but it is distinctly different than reading in English, even for simple texts.

I watched way more anime than I thought

When I started watching raw Japanese shows I noticed that there were a large number of vocab and grammar points that I already understood but that I had never studied before. After some thinking, I realized that I had picked it up from all of the anime that I watched in junior high/high school. (I have nearly 2500 hours recorded on Myanimelist, 90%+ was before I finished high school. I also don’t think MAL counts re-watches in that time so it may be closer to 3000 hours.)

I guess spending my youth watching anime wasn’t a complete waste of time because it gave me a boost to my Japanese comprehension. I never really thought about it before because I was always using English subtitles, but I must have brute-forced it into my brain through sheer volume of listening.

This is also probably why I am able to process easier Japanese as if it were English. I unintentionally immersed in the language for years, which gave my brain time to absorb the language fully.

tl;dr Anime is good for your brain. Go watch it.

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Bold statement

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I bought everything at once as soon as the sale started. Plus more. 13 full series, plus what I was missing of 2 others.

I’ve banned myself from buying any more manga for quite a while.

Including what I bought this past week, I have over 500 unread manga. 5-6 longer series make up about half of that because I like to buy entire series at a time (Naruto and Dragon Ball make up nearly a quarter on their own). I am going to try to not buy any more manga until to get that down to a reasonable number or reach N2 level with my reading. Most of the manga I have is varying levels of N3 on Natively, so once I need N2 reading material I will end up needing to buy more books.

Also, I hit 1 year on Natively over the weekend! I wasn’t using it consistently until October/November, but still it’s wild how far I’ve come in such a short time.

Reading update

I didn’t read much this last week. I can blame it on several things but either way time just got away from me and I didn’t do as much reading as I wanted to.
Reading the second chapter of 雨でも晴れでも 1 | L22 for the Yuri/GL/wlw book club and part of 好きな子がめがねを忘れた 3 | L19 made up about half of my reading this week. Definitely want to power through some volumes that I bought before the listening challenge next month.

Watching update

I didn’t watch much this week until the weekend. I started watching ハリー・ポッター シリーズ | L29-31 and ブルックリン・ナイン-ナイン | L33?? on Friday and that really accelerated my watch time for the week. Both of these series are definitely too advanced for me, but I am familiar enough with them that I can follow along even when I lose track of what they’re saying.

I can half understand Harry Potter, but any time anything cop-adjacent is mentioned in Brooklyn 99 I completely lose the Japanese. It will be nice to revisit these both in a year or so and see how much I’ve progressed in that time.

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Ugh, I know this feeling too well. I just bought way too much the last few weeks and I’m already salivating for more…

Congrats!!
… I think I missed my Nativelaversary, not that you mention it :sweat_smile:

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It’s been almost a month since I’ve updated this log. :grimacing:

Reading

I nearly hit my reading goal for last month. I needed to read 1500-1700 pages, and I ended up reading a bit over 1400. A lot of that was in the first week, then I slowed down dramatically.

I’ve been pushing myself to mid/upper N3 reading material for the sake of trying to improve my reading by consuming content that is a bit outside my comfort zone. I did this when I started doing listening practice and had great results in a few short months.

However, I’ve come to realize that I have a lot less patience for text than I do for spoken dialogue, so this strategy has been causing me to not want to read as much because it feels like a hassle.

I’m shifting my strategy to mostly reading upper-N4/lower-N3 material. I will still allow myself to read something more difficult if it really grabs me, but I’m no longer going to try to force myself to read at a higher level for a while.

The hope is that because it will be a lot easier I will end up reading a lot more and I will make up for the lower difficulty with massive amounts of actual reading, allowing me to still run into enough new vocab/grammar to keep improving.

Has anyone else found the need to treat reading and watching/listening differently?

Listening

I did not do much listening practice last month. I still got my mandatory “watch something everyday” in, but too often it was 1-2 episodes of 3-5 minute OVAs. I did start watching the Harry Potter movies last month which helped my total time for the month.

I have been doing a lot better this month because of the listening challenge. I already have almost watched as much this month as I did last month.
So far, I finished Harry Potter. It was too high level for me, but it wasn’t as difficult as I was afraid it would be going in. I also finished 見える子ちゃん S1 | L26 and 僕の心のヤバイやつ S1 | L24, both of which I enjoyed thoroughly, even if the first couple episodes of 僕の心のやばいやつ did make me want to drop it. It quickly improved and I am glad that my completionist brain didn’t let me drop it so easily.

I’ve also been watching a lot of ドラゴンボール S1 | L24. I’m not partial to the earlier parts of the show, but it pretty consistently gets more entertaining for me as the tone progressively shifts, so I’m enjoying my time with it now and anticipating the later parts that I still remember pretty well.

I bought some more manga the other day… It was on steep sale and I couldn’t help myself.
But I only used points that I already had, so I didn’t actually spend any more money, which is the important thing.

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Yes. Very much so.

I’m pretty happy listening up to 22 or so without subs, and 28 or so with subs (depending on the reason for the difficulty rating). I can also do audiobooks up to 24 or so without missing too much.

With books I struggle with anything over level 23 or so without the audiobook to listen along to. I can’t actually decide if my listening is somehow that much better than my reading, or if the reader/TV show picking up some of the cognitive load by reading to me is what the difference is. But I’m definitely more comfortable with listening to things at a higher level than I am reading things.

(Which is crazy to me. Before Natively I thought my listening was absolute F tier trash and my reading was by far my best skill.)

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My listening is very low compared to my reading level. It’s better than it was previously but I feel like I’m back at chapter 2 of みんなの日本語初級. Anything higher than around Natively Lv 12 and I seriously struggle with listening but reading I’m almost double that. I do find that I understand any fiction better when reading and slice of life is the easiest stuff when listening, for me. I can read extensively and still grasp the gist of whats going on most of the time but listening, I have to focus or I don’t understand anything :sweat_smile:

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Another late update. This is quickly becoming a monthly log.

Listening

The August listening challenge is going pretty well. I managed to hit my goal of 1.6 hrs every day for the first half of the month. However, after I failed to hit it on a single day about half-way through the flood gates opened and I keep missing more. I am still on track for the month overall though.

I’m glad that I am taking part in it because I watched a lot of shows that I had been putting off in favor of reading for the past few months.
Namely, I watched a few episodes of 殺戮の天使 S1 | L25 and I have been watching a lot of 美少女戦士セーラームーン | L24 since I started it last week for the challenge. I also watched over 40 episodes of ドラゴンボール S1 | L23 this month.

殺戮の天使 is a horror-action series with an ‘escape room’ vibe. I thrive on horror and mystery, so I’m really glad that I found a show like this at my level. Though it is on hold at the moment because I want to read the manga before finishing the show.

I was not expecting to be so into Sailor Moon. I remember trying to watch it in high school and never got past the first few episodes because it never really pulled me in. A decade later and now I can’t put it down.

Thanks to the listening challenge I am pulling ahead on my listening goal for the year. If I do my bare-minimum of 1 episode/movie a day then I will easily pass my 500 total hour goal by the end of the year.

Reading

I haven’t done much reading this month because I have been spending most of my time listening instead. This is looking to be one of my worst months in terms of reading volume.

I finished 雨でも晴れでも 1 | L23 as part of the Yuri/GL/wlw book club earlier in the month. I meant to continue reading volume 2 as part of the spin off club, but I couldn’t find the willpower to read more than a few pages a day because my brain would just scream at me that I could be doing listening practice instead.

I also read 殺戮の天使 1 | L23 which felt really fast to read because there was not a ton of text per page.
Reading feels a lot more enjoyable when I am blazing through the pages like that compared to the slice-of-life/comedy manga that I’ve mostly been reading up to this point which have a lot more text per page.

Maybe I should read more action manga :thinking:. That might keep me from getting burnt out of reading because it feels easier (even if the actual language used is harder).

I didn’t start volume 2 yet because I have been focused on the listening challenge, but it’ll probably be the first thing I read next month.

Starting on the 1st of September it’s back to reading focus for me. I have a lot to catch up on if I want to hit my 20,000 total pages before the end of the year.

Language-learning side project

This is more of a tech project, but it’s for language learning and I’m excited about it so I wanted to include it in the update.

A couple of weekends ago I started working on a small personal project to determine the best shows/movies to watch by calculating the ratio of i+1 lines per episode.

Progress is a bit slow because between work and Japanese listening practice, I don’t have a ton of time/energy during the week. I’ve exclusively been working on it during the weekends so far.

I managed to build a simple proof of concept in a few hours that would spit out the best shows to watch within the limited library that I used to test it.

It took me a couple more evenings to set up a database and optimize the code so that it doesn’t take forever to calculate the results.

Between cleaning up the data, making a front-end, testing scaling, and I’m sure a half-dozen other things that I am not thinking of, the finished prototype may be finished in a month or two. After that, assuming I still have the energy to continue, I may start working on a pre-alpha version that is coded properly instead of just bodged together.

If/when I get a proper alpha version I will gladly share it somehow (probably on Github or setting up a simple website) as I think it has the potential to be pretty useful to others.
Unfortunately, the prototype has a lot of insecurities (particularly with interacting with the database), so it probably won’t get shared in its current state.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I started Pokemon Diamond in Japanese a week or two ago. I’ve only been playing a bit at a time, but it’s been fun so far.

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Which is the source material, do you know? The manga or show?

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The source material is a free indie game distributed by Den Fami Nico Game Magazine. A paid version was eventually release on steam (Steam:殺戮の天使). The manga came next, then a light novel, then the show. The manga is interesting because between chapters there are notes from the author about making the original game.

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Oh, very cool! Thanks for the good info!

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Listening

Last month was the worst month I have had for listening all year. I only watched 12 hours of content throughout the entire month and most of that was near the end of the month.

I tried watching a couple episodes of Naruto for the first time in 6 months. Last time I tried watching it it was pretty overwhelming and it felt light years away. While I still couldn’t understand it very well it felt within reach this time. It felt really good to see how much more progress I made than I thought.

I started watching level 25-27 shows near the end of last month and I feel like I am mostly at a good level with them. They’re a bit difficult and I need to turn on subtitles a lot for the more difficult shows, but they are manageable.

This is exciting for me because one of my big goals for the year is to be comfortable with N3 level material and to start moving onto N2 level material. While I have started some L27 shows, I wouldn’t consider my goal met yet because I am still having a bit of trouble with L26 shows. But it feels like I might reach my goal for the year.

Reading

In contrast to my listening, reading was pretty big for me last month. I read almost 1,000 pages of manga in the first week, which was more than I had read the entire previous month.

Also, I finished my first light novel (もしもの世界ルーレット あったら便利? “スペアの体”の使い方 他 | L22). I started reading it back in May, but I could barely read a couple of pages at a time and quickly put it down. When I picked it back up last month I was able to read multiple chapters a day without major issue. I even read the entire last 3rd in a single day which felt great.

I also started https://learnnatively.com/book/6baaa12b46/, which I am about half-way through and わたしの家はおばけ屋敷 | L22, which I am still pretty early in.

I’m not enjoying くまくまくまベアー as much as I thought I would. I thoroughly enjoyed the show, but the book feels a lot slower and more boring. I imagine that the biggest issue is my reading speed. I own the first 3 volumes, so I guess we will see if I start enjoying it more as I read through the rest.

Also, volume 9 of お兄ちゃんはおしまい! | L21 came out near the end of last month, so that felt like Christmas in July September. I quickly devoured it and am now cursed to wait most of a year for more. :sob:

I need to pick up my reading pace if I want to reach my reading goal for the year. I’ll be several thousand pages short at my current pace.

I also tried playing a few games in Japanese:

Games I tried
  • Pokemon Diamond - I haven’t been playing this much lately, but it’s pretty easy to understand outside of the pokemon and move names being completely different from what I grew up with which is a bit confusing. (Probably upper N4 - lower N3)
  • Fable - I could barely understand anything. I would have been completely lost if I wasn’t already very familiar with it. (Upper N2 - N1+)
  • Code Vein - I’m only about a 3rd of the way through, but it doesn’t seem too difficult so far, although I have played through it before in English so that is probably helping me a fair amount. (?Upper N3-lower N2?)
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It’s been a couple of months since I updated. I’ve switched up how I have been doing most of my listening and reading for the last couple of months.

Before, I was mostly just reading and watching whatever I felt like in the moment, but recently I started reading manga and watching the adaptation at the same time. I will generally try to stay about a volume ahead in the manga while I do this. This has been incredibly helpful for understanding higher level shows that I would otherwise have been lost on.

When reading I have the luxury of being slow, re-reading half a page, and looking up half a dozen words in a row when I need to. I can take all the time I need to understand what is going on. Then I can take the unfamiliar vocab and grammar and review them by watching the adaptation 1-2 days later.

It essentially works like SRS, but unlike apps like Anki, I can actually stick with it.

Of course, this technique is limited because it requires a manga/book series to have a fairly faithful adaptation, but I have been able to make good use of it the past couple of months.

In this way, I watched through half of ソウルイーター S1 | L28, most of ジャヒー様はくじけない! S1 | L27, and all of 姫様“拷問”の時間です S1 | L26 without too much trouble.

ソウルイーター in particular felt great because the show would have been far beyond my level if I hadn’t read it first. I felt like I was really punching above my weight.

I also tried a few more games in Japanese, but I didn’t play much of them. Some I tried just because I could, knowing I wouldn’t be able to understand them (Halo Reach), others I meant to continue playing but got distracted by other things (Professor Layton, Dragon Ball Kakarot). Hopefully I can find the energy to play more games in Japanese next year.

For now, it’s onto the last push for the year. I have less than a month left and still have a few Japanese goals that I need to reach.

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