Shitsurei, ne! (aka my learning log and other random musings)

Never tried them, as from all I heard or read about their content they seem to me to be completely boring :sweat_smile:

I try to get them down to one or two, or at least just one of each category, like one novel + one manga + one non fiction, etc.

Otoh I actually do series hopping, as to read just one would probably also appear boring to me, but I finish a book of one series before I switch to the next one.

Btw I think of them as my 積ん読 short list :smirk:

Just saw, we have currently the same number of read books: 204. :joy:

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You have to like reality TV, so if you don’t you won’t like it. :joy: I think there’s some amount of charm to it (except for the part that a cast member in one of the later seasons killed herself due to social media bullying… so not entirely charming), but at the end of the day you’re watching late teen to early 20 year old drama, which…
It does remind me of earlier reality TV (more The Real World and less Keeping Up with the Kardashians), which is more interesting. I don’t know that I’d watch it if I wasn’t learning Japanese, but I know a lot of people who really love the show and don’t speak the language at all…

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Maybe a sign that you should watch The Boyfriend?

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I’m definitely saving that until my Japanese is Better™.
Terrace House is going ok. I occasionally lose them when I don’t know what a word means, but it’s usually only one word that I’m missing. The host segments are harder to follow than the show itself and that’s probably what I’m most in need of for practice.

But maybe I’ll check out The Boyfriend when I need a Terrace House break. :wink:

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🗾🌸🚅March ⛩️🍜🍱🛫

Logged* count

Total pages 1,398
Manga 981
Book 417
Total listening hours 16
Audiobook 5
Podcast 2
TV 9

I both heard and spoke so much more Japanese over two weeks than I do probably in 3 months at home, but how do you log “overhearing people’s conversation walking down the street”, “reading the scrolling text on the shinkansen”, or “browsing shelves at Book Off”? I also watched a fair bit of TV in hotel rooms that I didn’t bother tracking, and also didn’t bother tracking when I met up with friends and chatted with them. I did track TV episodes on streaming sties and things I read when I was there (but it wasn’t a lot since I had other priorities). So, apologies to March, bc it will probably be my biggest Japanese month of the year but it won’t reflect it in the numbers :joy:


I’ve remembered one of the problems I have with Terrace House is that I feel too much empathy for the people and sometimes I need a break from it. :sweat_smile: So I haven’t been watching much of that last week. I did pick up some new seasonal anime that I wrote up in the watching thread.

I also started ひいきびいき this week. It’s harder than 4989 for sure, but honestly a big part of that is just the audio levels… I usually listen to podcasts in the car and not with headphones so I miss some things and I’m having to turn it way up and then way back down when they are laughing. I’m hoping that they upgrade equipment/setup at some point, but with some hundreds of episodes I imagine it won’t be soon :sob: Other than that, it’s a pretty enjoyable listen so far. It’s just two people talking about things they are interested in. It not having a ton of substance is both helpful for when I lose them for a bit, or when I realize I’ve been zoning out and I come back it only takes a few seconds to figure out what they’re talking about.


Something I kinda noticed before I left, but I’m definitely starting to feel now is I’m starting to wonder if I’m approaching the fabled “escape velocity” part of language learning that I’ve heard about where everything is fun again and you just can pick things up because you’re interested in it and not because it’s going to improve your language skills.

Of course, this is only happening for me in listening. Reading still feels like a huge chore, although I have also felt some improvements here as well. Only a few months ago I was avoiding manga above around level 22, but right now I’m reading NANA―ナナ― | L28 and ダンダダン | L26 without much trouble (a lot of lookups, sure, but no real difficulties in understanding). Nana is techincally a re-read (and I’ve seen some of the anime too) and I watched ダンダダン in the fall, so they’re not totally new to me, but I think a year ago both would be so much of a struggle that I wouldn’t enjoy them.

To help address my “reading issues”, I’m continuing with my plan of reading with audiobooks, and I played around with a bunch of TTS and have settled on ElevenLabs with Natural Reader as a back up.

TTS details for nerds

ElevenLabs

The TTS voice is great but afaict there’s ONE Japanese voice, which is frustrating. I don’t need 15 voices with different accents and styles, but even a male and a female voice would be nice. It also is the only one of my top three that has a pay as you go model. It was the one I tested last, so I haven’t been using its TTS much but it looks like maybe I’ll hit the free quotas quickly. They’re cagey about pricing too, so we’ll see how it goes and depending on prices I’ll either pay them a bit or use Natural Reader when my free credits expires.

Natural Reader and Speechify are both yearly subscription models, and both are above $100/year.

Speechify had the better voices imo, but none of the Japanese voices are premium voices. You also can’t download audio to listen offline in Japanese, and just generally they have a lot less on their free program.

The Natural Reader voices are fine. Not computery at all, but it does (ironically) have the least natural intonation. It’s the one I’ve noticed has the most kanji misreadings, feels less aware of text formatting, and will read things that other TTS wouldn’t. I wouldn’t pay for them, but their free features are good as a backup for ElevenLabs

Honorable mention: ReadEra Android app
It somehow has access to the better tts voices on my phone than Kindle and Google Books seem to, for whatever reason (probably bc they both want to sell me audiobooks), but it’s still really computery. I’d love to just buy a high(er) quality voice for $20-50 and have that get me through until I’m less dependent on TTS, but I couldn’t really find a lot of information on that, and the few I found were only Eurpoean languages. What I really want is the Yamanote line’s TTS :joy:

At the end of the day, I don’t really want to rely on TTS much/at all, but it’s much better with the high quality voices and I am reading more with it than without. My assumption is that the more I read the faster it will be until I’m ready to read without the aid of audio. So far that theory has felt true, and I’ve found some scholarly research to support my intuition.

Reading without audiobooks still feels like pulling out my fingernails, but level 25+ manga also felt that way only a few months back so I’m going to Trust the Process™ and enjoy the fun I’m having.

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Yes, definitely! The only way to pull less teeth reading is to pull more teeth reading! wait a minute

Honestly I feel like 本好き’s a good choice for getting used to and practicing for “standard novels”, i.e. that low-30 maybe high-20 range. It doesn’t have anything really fancy going on in the grammar department, but the range of vocabulary is nice and wide, and you even learn how to deal with stuff you’ll probably never see again (unless you’re really into paper-making, I guess). And at least in these early books there’s little-to-no fantasy, which is a big bonus.

I am curious how your reading speed and ease develops with heavily early reading + listening; I didn’t start listening until much later in the game, and it’s only now I feel like I’ve noticed my own reading become faster because of it.

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I’ve noticed speed improvements lately, but I think I’m actually attributing that to subtitles with shows that are too hard for me to watch raw. I kinda ignore the subs when I don’t need them and just glance down when I miss a word. With subs at or above my ability I basically need to read the whole thing at the speed of the speakers. With audiobooks (specifically 本好き, but I’ve noticed it also with other 27+ audiobooks too) sometimes I am not keeping up with the narration and I lose my place in the book, and then I rest on my listening until I find my place again. 本好き also very occasionally doesn’t exactly match the text, usually when someone is talking and will change dialogue very slightly to I’m assuming sound more natural when spoken. That will also throw me off.

Honestly I started this whole listening project last year because I saw a bunch of advanced readers complain that it’s really discouraging when your reading skill is a lot higher than your listening skill and if you focus on listening earlier then you won’t have this trouble. Except I did that and now I have the opposite problem :upside_down_face:

Sometimes I wonder if being obsessed with Japanese bands in my teens and 20s seeded my brain with a bunch of wild vocabulary that I’m finally catching up enough to exploit… it really doesn’t feel like I’ve done this much listening in the last year, but I also was just barely keeping up with level 18s and now I’m like “oh level 28… I guess I should probably find subs but no biggie if I don’t” :joy:

I swear to god, I’m both really enjoying this book and also if I have to hear any more about procuring paper making materials I will scream :joy:

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I got a lot of early vocab through music obsession, so seems possible. Tangentially, I think music is ideal early vocab in some ways, bc very small word sets that you’ll reinforce to death, and learn the meaning of + probably sing along to. There’s still words where I immediately think of the song where I learned them, every time I hear them!

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I did it!!!

Now maybe I should go spend some more time reading and less on the forums :sweat_smile:

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Woohoo! One of the harder badges to get by far.

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ん.

That is to say, I’ve realized I’m having trouble hearing ん.

I was bingeing 僕の心のヤバイやつ S1 | L25 yesterday and today and had to stop to look up both (はい)(しん)(しゃ) and (ぜん)(しょ), but heard はいししゃ and ぜいしょ. I’m not sure what to do with this information (but knowing is half the battle? GI Joe??)

Speaking of 僕の心のヤバイやつ S1 | L25, I absolutely adored it! I had a big stupid grin in my face for most of the episodes. I want to go ahead with season 2, but I’m already past where I’ve read in the manga and I have all of the volumes except for the most recent one. So, in a poll that I reserve the right to ignore, should I:

  • Watch the anime (ride that high!)
  • Read the manga (don’t spoil the source material)
0 voters
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It’s probably bc they’re not fully doing it (just like how 千円 ends up sounding like senyen). As for what to do about it :woman_shrugging:

Re: 心のヤバイ - I voted for the manga bc I was underwhelmed with season 2. Otherwise I’d usually say do the anime first, so you won’t be grumpy about adaptation, and cuz you’re already in the flow. So feel free to ignore my vote lol

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I said ride that high cause IMO if this is a hobby do the things that keep you motivated the most. There is no proper order.

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So I started the manga last night to buy myself some time of making the decision. I still probably have 2 volumes to catch up to where I’ve seen the show, and because I’ve just watched the show it’s really easy to read and it’s clarifying the few things I didn’t catch in the show and didn’t bother to go look up (I mostly just extensively watch TV unless there’s something that is very plot relevant).

It’s having me lean towards manga first (although I’ll have to look up where the second season ends in a non spoiler manner, which is always hard :joy:), although I’ll probably read to where the first season ended and conform my decision. I think the show and the voice actors did a really good job of breathing life into the already great characters, so I do miss that a bit in going back to reading…

This did also sway my choice a bit. I think I’d rather read first and be annoyed with the adaptation…? But I’m not 100% sure of it…

This I definitely am also feeling :joy:
I’m not going to want to go all the way back to where I am in the manga to read to new content so I’m going to read until I lose interest and then watch the show. I didn’t even really lose interest when I stopped before, it was just hard enough that it was a bit if a struggle and not as much fun as I want manga to be. The combination of me having given it time and having watched what I’m reading right now has made it much much easier to read.

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I was thinking about how you posted this and actually randomly came across a few clear explanations for this sound while doing my own study stuff so I thought I’d share it with you!

That instance of ん before し・ち・ん is actually its own sound. In the examples you shared that you couldn’t hear well, the ん is followed by a し、which is pronounced in the prepalatal area. Due to how and where your tongue is when you make that sound, the air flow isn’t fully blocked so the ん before it turns into a nasal vowel sound as you go from vowel → ん → し. So that is why it sounds like a vowel sound, because it is one (even though it’s another variant of ん). I like to think about ん as just being a placeholder for all kinds of nasal action for that reason, because there are actually multiple types of different nasal sounds in Japanese and not all of them are like “n”. :sweat_smile:

This video explains more about where your tongue goes to make that ん sound when it’s followed by those particular sounds. He also explains well how the air comes up and goes into your nasal cavity to produce the sound (the little line he draws with yellow chalk). Around 9:00 he also explains how learners may get the sound wrong and put too much “n” into it, and how to fix it by moving your tongue back slightly.

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Not gonna lie, I was partially fishing for a @bungakushoujo explanation with that post and it seems like I’ve hooked one :joy:

I’ll definitely check out that video. I recognize him from when I was looking for native content to listen to years ago (before I even found Natively). He was way above my listening abilities but I did want to come back and watch him some day. I wonder if that someday is now…

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lol you can just tag me next time :rofl: GI Joeeee

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Will do :saluting_face:
(Although catching a big fish off the back of my yacht is also fun :joy:)

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I was listening to a 百合漫画家 恋バナ video earlier, and it took me a few times hearing メンヘラ to finally figure out that it wasn’t めいへら or めへら - and I thought of your post :slight_smile:

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I did not do this.
Instead I read 5 volumes in 4 days and now I’m to the end of the 2nd season (according to Reddit).

I think I’m going to watch season 2 and then read the last 2 volumes that I have left. For a bit I was considering waiting to read all 3 when the newest one comes out in June (?), but I feel like I gotta ride this wave.

It’s definitely not hard for me to read, but there are parts that I don’t understand. For a while I was looking up the english translations using google lens on the page that I was on (which actually works really well, and seeing that there are a lot of unlicensed translations out there, it comes up with a lot of results :upside_down_face:). But as I kept going, I realized that there was very little plot that I was missing. I just sometimes wouldn’t know what people were talking specifically about. Most of the reading that I do when I’m reading prose is pretty extensive (esp when I’m reading along with an audiobook), and I do miss details when I’m reading that way, but I still know what the story is. So I think racing through the volumes this week has given me more courage to not have to understand everything in manga either.


I’ve been paying more attention to ん now too. I really like @bungakushoujo’s explanation that it’s more of a placeholder for nasaly sounds. That also cleanly explains why you get more of an m in 先輩 or 頑張. The downside of that is that it means that until you know the word, you might be doomed to miss that ん… or maybe we need to get more sensitive to hearing nasal sounds and then connecting those to ん? :woman_shrugging:t4:

It does remind me of an anecdote that came up in one of the 4989 American Life episodes where the host was saying that she was pronouncing all of her m/ns with her lips closed (so she wouldn’t make a when pronouncing gleam and glean, for example). One of her friends couldn’t understand her when she was trying to say something, and said that she was saying it with the wrong consonant and she was really surprised that her friend could hear the difference between the two since it sounded the same to her. So I’m wondering if an English speaking ear is hearing ん as a more specific sound than it actually is in Japanese…:thinking:

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