I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean. Are you saying by default hide them unless you click to reveal? Eh, we could debate that, but I think I lean no.
Yeah, that’s what I meant 
1 Like
Oh, I thought of some other problems/quirks due to importing from AniList.
- Even tags with high percentages are treated as having no votes so a single person can remove them. (Not saying that’s good or bad, just something I noticed.)
- On AniList, a new tag starts at 20%. So more obscure manga tend to mostly have tags at 20%, which I think contradicts how new tags work on Natively and might cause some confusion. (I do see that these imported values are treated as “placeholders” and are immediately overridden by an initial vote on Natively, so that helps I think.)
- The placeholder values might discourage people from voting if the imported values seem “good enough”, but this could result in just one person having too much influence if they are the first person to finally vote.
EDIT: Also, I’m not sure the genres and tags imported for all series. For example: うらら迷路帖 1 | L32
EDIT 2: I also agree that there needs to be a “moderate element” or something for 50%.
Also a question: How did you tags as spoiler on import? 紡ぐ乙女と大正の月 1 | L29 has a tag marked as spoiler (which it’s totally not; it’s literally the premise of the manga) and AniList doesn’t have it listed as a spoiler. Maybe someone requested it to be changed, but it is an obscure series so that would surprise me.
By the way, in the add genre/tag popup, it seems like the search shows results for both but also doesn’t differentiate them. I’d either have it only return results for the genre or tag as requested via the + symbol, or I’d differentiate them more strongly in the search/dropdown.
4 Likes
With regards to your #1,2,3 - yes that’s all expected ‘placeholder’ behavior, or at least that’s how I intended it. You’re right that precise percentages may discourage some initial votes, but it’s not a big deal I don’t think. Once we get tags into search, people will be more motivated to make sure they’re accurate and if there are tag percentage changes which impact their filtering, then they’ll go and vote.
I just think having a good set of initial placehoder tags will get people excited about the system 
That’s interesting that AniList starts it at 20%. The precise algorithm could definitely be iterated on, not entirely sure what we want. For now though, I think a simple system is fine!
Ah, yeah for any series / books that don’t have AniList links, we didn’t add. Most things do but sometimes the link was missed in the upload process.
Also, for series where there are multiple sub arcs with different anilist entries, we didn’t do those either as we couldn’t do a simple series tag. There were only about ~55 of them though, so not too many.
Fair, I’ll add today.
Ah, interesting and maybe this was a bug on my part… AniList has two spoiler fields for the tags data they give you … ‘isGeneralSpoiler’ and ‘isMediaSpoiler’. This tag was marked as a general spoiler but not a media spoiler. ‘Media’ just references the individual item. Perhaps I should only look at ‘isMediaSpoiler’ and not ‘isGeneralSpoiler’? TBH, i’m not sure how AniList uses general spoiler… is it only for search or something?
Hmm, this isn’t true for me. When I use the ‘Add Genre’ popup it only shows genres in the search, same for ‘Add Content Tag’ only shows content tags. Do you have an example?
2 Likes
For the record, I wasn’t saying their 20% was good, just that it could cause some confusion. I actually think that default of 20% is really stupid and works very poorly for obscure works. A small enhancement on Natively would be to let you pick the major/minor rating when adding a new tag, but either way letting the user pick the initial value as you have it makes sense.
Afraid I don’t know. I didn’t even realize there were two fields. I was just going based on the UI.
I searched for “drama” in the genre popup and saw “medical drama” and assumed it was a tag. I guess that’s why I got confused. Adding to my confusion was that “drama” had no description but “medical drama” did, so I thought genres didn’t get descriptions while tags did.
1 Like
I added medical drama and I’ve been adding descriptions to all my tags (so far as I remember)
(just for context on that particular example)
2 Likes
Updates:
- ‘Moderate’ element option has been added per the request of @seanblue @omk and @暁のルナ
- There is now a full page Tags | Natively search page you can view. For our tag volunteers this will be the launching pad for more admin functionality, but I will be opening a separate thread for that.
Next Up:
- Adding a few tag admin functions, opening tag admin thread with volunteers
- Figuring out spoiler handling
Edit:
You could make the case for that being tagged ‘Drama’ (genre), ‘Medical’ (content tag) 
I think we may want to keep the genre list pretty limited, but it’s a discussion worth having.
7 Likes
I notice that there are a handful of tags that start with lower case, and these end up sorted to the bottom of the list both on the list-of-all-tags page and in the dropdown for tag selection. Should we:
- force the first letter to uppercase?
- case-insensitive sort?
- both?
5 Likes
I’d like some guidance on what genre to add to books like むらさきのスカートの女 | L27 (learnnatively.com), 正欲 | L35?? (learnnatively.com), 妊娠カレンダー | L31 (learnnatively.com), 推し、燃ゆ | L36 (learnnatively.com), コンビニ人間 | L30 (learnnatively.com), 水たまりで息をする | L29 (learnnatively.com), 舟を編む | L36 (learnnatively.com) to name a few examples. Literature is too general surely, Literary Fiction sounds a bit pretentious. Contemporary Fiction? Some of them could be called Slice of Life, but not all, and not really.
6 Likes
I feel like I would default to this. “Contemporary Fiction” also sounds good, but what if you have a book written in 1920 with that same literary vibe? Is it still contemporary?
4 Likes
Great catch! I’ve fixed this. All new tags will now be forced into ‘Title Case’ (capital every word). I’ve fixed the tags that weren’t like this.
For all the rare cases where this doesn’t quite work (CGI shouldn’t be Cgi for example)… you will be able to use the reporting mechanism to signal to the tag mods that there’s an issue. Or they’ll probably notice when they approve.
And with that, I’d like to welcome our newly empowered @tag-moderators @Naphthalene @Mizuki @cat @Biblio!
Thanks all for helping pitch in to help out!!
(We’re still figuring out all the systems, so bear with us while we get everything online)
8 Likes
contemporary fiction is main stream fiction vs. literary fiction being “high-brow” fiction. I don’t know if the distinction is needed and we could just put them under “General Fiction” i.e. books that don’t fit into any particular genre.
8 Likes
Yes I wouldn’t want to need to make the decision of whether a book is literary enough. General fiction sounds so bland though.
4 Likes
I wouldn’t even let people add new genres for this reason. I think genres should only be added after a discussion on the forums and there being some kind of consensus.
(Using this previous example, “medical drama” probably shouldn’t be a separate genre, but should be a content tag instead.)
3 Likes
That may be right and we may end up doing that. But for the time being I think allowing people to submit new genre suggestions for approval which then prompts discussion here seems fine too. Hiding those ‘needs approval’ tags from tag search may be necessary.
I do think we’ll add a few more genres since we have some different content than AniList, but agreed we should try to keep it limited and not bloat as best we can. Ultimately, I think the tag mods and us here in this thread need to figure out our standards.
Edit: On another note, you can now ‘report’ a tag on any book page… just simply click the stop sign icon on a tag:
This is where you can submit requests to change a spoiler status or something else
5 Likes
There’s been some internal discussion on whether or not we should split content tags / genre tags and if we do keep them, how do we handle the genres / subgenres … etc.
My thoughts:
- Maybe we change the input mechanism to only add tags… you can’t choose the type of tag. This hopefully reduces friction with the distinction.
- Removing genres entirely seems sad to me. Genres are a nice set of top level categorization that makes for easy browsing later. My worry of removing genres is then people would be inclined to only tag by a subgenre, like medical drama. If ‘drama’ is a ‘genre’ then it’d be more inclined to be tagged as both a drama and medical drama.
- WRT how to handle subgenres, I’d say all subgenres go to tags. We want to keep the genre list small and browseable, maybe less than 40 ?
- Another approach to subgenres - just don’t do them. Instead of medical drama, just have drama & medicine.
6 Likes
Speaking of genre, I added Humanities recently to cover the book I have in my reading list. It’s not an essay, in the sense that for me an essay is the author giving their opinion on a topic (and the description says it should be short while this book is definitely not short).
Instead, the author is giving an overview of the progress of philosophy on the topic of “consciousness”. I guess historical could work too, in a way, but it feels wrong as well.
If we aim to keep the number of genres limited, I’d be happy to remove Humanities and instead have something a bit more broad for essay? (Like “Essay/something”, although I don’t know what the something should be)
2 Likes
This is my least favorite approach to be honest, I’d have to play a puzzle game to find a subgenre I enjoy when it should just…be there.
I like the idea of everything just being tags. To me it seems to have the least friction (no arguing over whether it qualifies to exist, just a word cloud that suits a book) and also an easier input process for someone new to the site.
To me it’s not really sad to do away with genre as it’s often just a broad stroke description anyways. Many things tagged “drama” have very little in comman outside of just “humans”.
8 Likes
I also am not a fan of this approach - not everything tagged with ‘drama’ and ‘medicine’ is going to necessarily be a ‘medical drama’ taking place in a healthcare facility and with all the other attendant expected tropes. And while ‘medical drama’ has an obvious combination of tags that could indicate it, that wouldn’t be the case for every sub-genre (e.g. isekai, mahou shoujo).
I could see putting the sub-genre tags into the content tags if you really want to keep genre tags separate and limited, as long as we don’t end up too split about what belongs in the top-level genre tags.
9 Likes
Okay, I’ll be different. I think this approach is totally fine. “Medical drama” is kind of redundant. The genre is “drama” and it has a tag for “medicine” indicating it has story components related to that. Nice and simple. That said, I’m also fine with subgenres like “medical drama” going into tags, as long as it’s at the expense of genres.
This is exactly why I like genres being separate. I find those broad strokes to be very helpful. Often I just want to know if the show/book is a comedy, fantasy, sci-fi, etc. I don’t want to have to dig through a huge list of tags to pull out the genre information. Usually things have 2-4 genres, so it’s very easy to see at a glance.
1 Like
