Week 3 | また、同じ夢を見ていた / 또다시 같은 꿈을 꾸었어 | Beginner’s LN club

[Galios]

I’m approximately halfway through and have a few questions related to the official translation (once again). Below I’ll provide quotes from the original text, the official translation, and my gripes with them.

Case 1

ただ、なぜだか荻原くん以外のクラスメイト達は私を苦手に思っているか、嫌いに思っているみたいなのです。一度も、皆にいじわるなんてしたことないのに。

Other than Ogiwara, everyone else in our class either thought I was clumsy or hated me. Still, I had never once been bullied by them.

Where did the passive come from? Shouldn’t it be more like:
"I’ve never even once bullied them"?

Case 2

最初のページを開く時の、他のどんなものにもたとえることの出来ないこの気持ちを、きっとクラスでは私と荻原くんしか知らないのですから、もったいないことです。

I’m sure that Ogiwara-kun and I were the only ones in our class who understood the incomparable feeling of opening the first page of a book. It would be wasted on the others.

I feel like “もったいないことです” here is more of a regret that only the two of them are reading and sharing this experience, not that it would be wasted on others. So, in fact, she wants others to read too.

Case 3

図書室は静かだし、いい匂いがするし、先生が優しいし、とてもいいところです。でもこの場所にも一つだけいけないところがあります。それは本に夢中になりすぎてしまうというところです。

The library was a wonderful place, with its quiet, its lovely smell, and the kind librarian. However, even here, there was one line that one must not cross: losing oneself too deeply in the world of books.

Again, it feels to me more of a “this place has [a list of good things], but there is a negative one - I often find myself lost in books”.
Seems like the official translator took “いけないところがあります” a little too literally.

What do you think?

[henhen]

I agree with you for case 1, although I think “bullying” is a bit of a strong translation for いじわる. I think bullying is more of a repeated, longer term thing whereas いじわる can be a one-time “being mean” action.

For case 2, I think the official translation reflects her condescending attitude towards the rest of the classroom. While it is a regret that that only the two of them can appreciate it, she doesn’t think the others are capable of appreciating it.

For case 3, I think the official translation better captures her agency in losing track of time. I think it’s less “sometimes I find myself getting lost in the books, and that’s bad” and more “I have to make sure I don’t get too lost in the books”.

[暁のルナ]

@henhen

I think “bullying” is a bit of a strong translation for いじわる. I think bullying is more of a repeated, longer term thing whereas いじわる can be a one-time “being mean” action.

Also generally bullying would be 苛める (いじめる) rather than 意地悪 (いじわる), no?

(I’m not caught up rn, so I can’t comment on the passage itself)

[Jintor]

I think it is contemporaneous as it seems to follow the days events at school. The last line just seems to be like “and that’s how X happened” the way you might see in fiction when summing up something but not actually moving the time and place of the scene

I’m not sure if the last half was intended to be super spooky but it definitely felt that way to me on my initial read!

Interesting feeling where I’m feeling better and to read + pronounce in one go if not read + understand just yet.

[shintoo]

Ah, I had forgotten that first flashback and just assumed this was happening as it was told. But how the first flashback felt seamlessly incorporated with the narrative in the first chapter (to my novice eye), I suppose it could be that this is another of those as well. Though, at what point would the flashback start? After leaving school? It can’t be later than that, as her not getting to see アバズレさん and おばあちゃん led to her exploring the building. That makes me think this isn’t a flashback.

Just finished this week’s - definitely a couple long sentences I should go back and reread more carefully but overall pretty good. Lots more vocab this time around.

I like how encouraging she is to 桐生くん to stick it to whoever makes fun of him, and how she led the pair work with him.

[CatDQ]

Finished this weeks reading though from the discussions above, I’m missing key points so this will definitely be one I’m coming back to. I think just now, It’s too far above my level for me to be able to read it comfortably without about 30-40% vocab look ups
Listening along with reading, although at a slower pace, is definitely helping me to read the kanji and recognise words that I know the sound of but not the kanji of. Occasionally I’m missing a word or two, either that or the audio book adds/ changes certain words compared to my copy but I doubt that.

I’m still enjoying it and hoping that at some point I’ll have a better understanding of it when I try to read through it a second time.

[Galios]

I finished this week’s part too. Overall, it went slow but smooth, as @shintoo has mentioned, there were a few long sentences, but nothing too crazy. The last third definitely had spooky vibes. It brought back memories of exploring abandoned buildings and construction sites, although I didn’t have a cat to accompany me ;D.

As for the ending - seems like stuff is about to get real. I’m exited to find out more about the new girl.

[Legato]

@Galios

Below I’ll provide quotes from the original text, the official translation, and my gripes with them.

I agree with all your quibbles with the official translation (apart from the already mentioned 意地悪 distinction). Although tbh not 100% sure on case 3.

@CatDQ

I think just now, It’s too far above my level for me to be able to read it comfortably without about 30-40% vocab look ups

Praise be for digital reading, where 30-40% vocab lookups aren’t that much of a bother

---

I’m not quite done yet (about 1/5th missing, maybe?), but since I already have plenty of questions… here goes.

One question right at the beginning

あいつらに何を言われても無視していると、やがて「びびってんじゃねえ」とかなんとか、日本語を喋れることを褒めてあげたくなるようなことを言ってから去っていったので、やっと上靴を履き終わって校舎に足を踏み入れます。

Whew, what a sentence.

What’s the と at the end of the first fragment? Is it this one, and she is describing not just what happens there today, but what happens in general in this often repeating situation? Like “When I ignore them, this happens:”?

If so, is the whole sentence (slightly literally) something like
“When I ignore them despite anything they say, in the end they say something to the effect like ‘You’re afraid, huh’, and leave after saying something that makes me feel like praising the fact that they can speak Japanese, and in the end I finish putting on my hallway slippers and enter the school building.”
?

Is the “something” that the say that makes her feel like praising the fact that they can speak Japanese the 「びびってんじゃねえ」とかなんとか? From the sentence it felt a bit like it’s something separate they say afterwards, which is weird.

Three questions towards the end

「あなた、人間相手ならまだしも、猫の世界でもそんなんじゃ嫌われるわよ」

Is that “With a human that’s fine, but if you did something like that in a place like cat society you’d be hated.”?

I’m glad I found the Bunpro entry for ならまだしも. Just having the “rather”/“better” definitions from JMdict didn’t really help much here. “A is fine…but B is not” makes much more sense.

もしかすると、出かけているおばあちゃんとすれ違うかもしれないとも思ったけれど、そんなこともなく、私達は下の公園まで下りてきました。

Does that mean she thought that she’d meet the old woman while going down the hill? I understood すれ違う more in the sense of failing to meet each other.

尻尾のちぎれた彼女はよほど期待を裏切られたのが悲しかったのか、私の足元でごろごろと転がっていました。

I assume that the 彼女はよほど期待を裏切られたのが悲しかったのか part probably means something like “The girl was probably sad from having her expectations greatly betrayed”, but how does that work grammatically?

We have:

• 彼女は: Regarding the girl
• よほど期待を裏切られたの: having her expectations greatly betrayed + の which makes it so that this can act as the subject
• が: marks よほど期待を裏切られたの as the subject
• 悲しかった: was sad
• のか: probably

Does that literally mean “For the girl, the experience of having her expectations betrayed was sad, probably”? So not literally “The girl is sad because X”, but “For the girl, X was a sad thing”? Or why is よほど期待を裏切られたの the subject?

[Galios]

One question

@Legato

What’s the と at the end of the first fragment?

I’m pretty sure it’s this one. Just a marker for when something happens, I’m not sure it has any connotation of it being a regular occurrence.

Three questions

@Legato

“When I ignore them despite anything they say

I translated it as “I silently ignore them”. It feels like “に” in “あいつらに” marks the direction of Nanoka’s action (ignoring), and not the direction of their action towards Nanoka.
So, when they finally come to their senses after being flustered by Nanoka’s insult, the only thing they can say is 「びびってんじゃねえ」, and in turn, It makes Nanoka want to sarcastically praise them for finally managing to speak Japanese.

@Legato

Is that “With a human that’s fine, but if you did something like that in a place like cat society you’d be hated.”?

I think it goes something like this: “If you’re being hated by humans it’s not a big deal, but with that attitude, you’ll be hated even among cats”.

@Legato

Does that mean she thought that she’d meet the old woman while going down the hill? I understood すれ違う more in the sense of failing to meet each other.

I understood it as that she hoped to meet her but that didn’t happen (そんなこともなく), so they arrived at the park without meeting her.

@Legato

Or why is よほど期待を裏切られたの the subject?

My grammar is not the best, but maybe it’s something like this but with the が and は switched.

[CatDQ]

@Legato

Praise be for digital reading, where 30-40% vocab lookups aren’t that much of a bother

Yeah, reading digitally is a blessing at times. It’s just easier on my eyesight to read a physical book instead, but look ups are a pain. I’ll get there though. And for me, it’s fun when I re-read it and see how much more I’ve understood second or third time around. I do that in English too

[shitsurei]

Just finished. I was a little sleepy by the end of the chapter so I was letting the audiobook play and not reading along quite as closely as I should. I might go back and re-read that last bit before next week.

The abandoned house part was spooky as hell. I had to stop myself from reading more too bc what a cliffhanger! At least it was easier to stop bc sleepy.

[Jintor]

@Legato

Does that mean she thought that she’d meet the old woman while going down the hill? I understood すれ違う more in the sense of failing to meet each other.

The jisho for すれ違う has both ‘passing by one another’ and ‘failing to meet one another’. I guess it’s one of those odd words that could mean either ‘meeting one another by chance’ or ‘failing to meet one another by chance’ and you would read it contextually…

[暁のルナ]

I haven’t read the portion yet, but generally it’s passing by without stopping (try doing a google image search to get a visual)

From: 擦れ違う（すれちがう）とは？ 意味・読み方・使い方をわかりやすく解説 - goo国語辞書

１ 触れ合うほど近くを反対方向に通りすぎる。「列車が—・う」

２ 時間や位置などがずれて、会えるはずが会えないままになる。「彼とは—・ってばかりいる」

1. passing by in the opposite direction, while being close enough to touch; example context: “train cars”

2. a missed meeting (while it ought to have happened) wrt time/place/etc

[Legato]

Thanks for the answers, folks!

One question right at the beginning (answer to answer)

@Galios

@Legato

“When I ignore them despite anything they say

I translated it as “I silently ignore them”. It feels like “に” in “あいつらに” marks the direction of Nanoka’s action (ignoring), and not the direction of their action towards Nanoka.
So, when they finally come to their senses after being flustered by Nanoka’s insult, the only thing they can say is 「びびってんじゃねえ」, and in turn, It makes Nanoka want to sarcastically praise them for finally managing to speak Japanese.

With this part I’m rather sure that it’s (rather literally) “despite them saying things at me, I ignore them”:

• Nanoka is the omitted subject (and in the case of the following passive, the “experiencer”) of the sentence
• あいつらに何を言われても: the verb here is passive, and in passive に marks the one “doing” the action, so it describes what the doer (あいつら) does + ても (despite): “despite them saying things at me”
• 無視している: “I ignore them”

Three questions towards the end (answers to answers)

@Galios

@Legato

Is that “With a human that’s fine, but if you did something like that in a place like cat society you’d be hated.”?

I think it goes something like this: “If you’re being hated by humans it’s not a big deal, but with that attitude, you’ll be hated even among cats”.

I have a bit of trouble trying to get that meaning from the sentence, but it’s my first time seeing ならまだしも, so maybe I’m not quite understanding it yet…

@暁のルナ

I haven’t read the portion yet, but generally it’s passing by without stopping

Yeah, that’s the vibe I got from the dictionary definitions too, but that clashes with my feeling of what Nanoka would’ve wanted. I’m curious to read your thoughts on it when you get there.

@CatDQ

Yeah, reading digitally is a blessing at times. It’s just easier on my eyesight to read a physical book instead, but look ups are a pain.

Praise be for Kindles, then - the best of both worlds, with paper-like reading comfort for the eyes and comfortable lookups. (Admittedly pretty expensive though. On the other hand, “shipping” the ebooks is rather cheap compared to shipping physical books to Germany…)

[暁のルナ]

@Legato

I’m curious to read your thoughts on it when you get there.

It might be another week or two at this rate (I’m obsessively reading Ranma 1/2 , and have another 31 volumes to get through), but I’ll let you know when I get there

@Legato

On the other hand, “shipping” the ebooks is rather cheap

compared shipping physical books to Germany…)

ところで、Suruga-ya does free shipping (including to Germany) fairly frequently… tho even then, Kindle is still sometimes cheaper

[Jiell]

Just finished the chapter! My cat was sleeping peacefully next to me… but the screams at the end woke him right up Poor kitty

on ならまだしも

@Legato

I have a bit of trouble trying to get that meaning from the sentence, but it’s my first time seeing ならまだしも, so maybe I’m not quite understanding it yet…

Not sure if it helps, but I found the explanation here pretty good.

意味

意味：Aまだしも、B

Aは諦あきらめて許ゆるせるけど、Bは許ゆるせないことです。

Aが起おこるのは仕方しかたないかもしれないが、もっと嫌いやなBが起おこってしまいました。

Especially the second part. So, “it can’t be helped that humans would hate that behavior, but even cats will hate you for it”
It think it is not so much that A is acceptable, but just that it’s relatively more acceptable than B.

[ReginaLugis]

Alright, I’m done with this week’s reading. I didn’t end up reading ahead because I was feeling a bit unmotivated, but today I read the entire chapter all at once. I already feel like my reading comprehension has gone up just from reading these few chapters. I’m at the point where I feel like I understand the gist of everything without having to analyze every single detail. I realize that it would probably be better to understand everything 100% but it takes some of the joy out of reading for me. To me, reading is still just a supplement to studying vocabulary, kanji and grammar. But that’s just my 2 cents

[暁のルナ]

@ReginaLugis

I realize that it would probably be better to understand everything 100% but it takes some of the joy out of reading for me

there’s benefit to both extensive reading (what you’re doing) and intensive reading (what you’re saying you should probly do). Whatever keeps you reading is the best approach, imo. I switch btwn the two myself… generally prefer intensive, but sometimes I just wanna stay in the flow, or might not be emotionally invested enough to fret the details

[em]

First page (p32? ): Found a new insult to use: 知性のかけらもない

Last page (p47? ): Wow, what a cliffhanger! I really liked the suspense build up when Nanoka started exploring the building. I literally went え？！ out loud when she encountered Minami on the rooftop

[ReginaLugis]

@暁のルナ

Whatever keeps you reading is the best approach, imo. I switch btwn the two myself… generally prefer intensive, but sometimes I just wanna stay in the flow, or might not be emotionally invested enough to fret the details

Totally see what you mean. I guess I am indeed the kind of person who doesn’t fret the details as long as what I think the meaning is makes sense to me.