I read グレイプニル 1 | L22 today. I don’t know how to feel about it. Lot of stress, ero and gore, I guess (although the gore isn’t that graphic). According to a review, the plot is supposed to pick up around volume 4, but the story feels a bit much for the mind space I’m in right now, and I’m out of 事情を知らない転校生がグイグイくる。 | L21, 僕らの食卓 | L20 or 女装してめんどくさい事になってるネクラとヤンキーの両片想い | L24 type things to lower my stress levels.
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I get the impression that one of the interesting things about “yuri” as a genre is that it cuts across the traditional 少年/少女/etc categories somewhat. So you can absolutely get yuri-for-the-male-audience with all that implies, but you can also get yuri that isn’t targeting dudes.
Galette is crowdfunded rather than from a traditional publisher, so I think it’s more likely to have stories the artists wanted to write rather than ones the publisher is pushing in a particular commercially oriented direction.
I think this also is “giving the readers what they want” (though not every work in the genre does it)…
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But they could have solved the issue by just hand waving at something like “it’s an effect of the magic bullet”. Magic is part of the premise, it’s not the weirdest thing it does. Then you get to do that without breaking in world consistency and I’d be fine with it.
Didn’t know about Galette. That sounds nice.
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Potentially worth bringing up that the author of this is actually from/living in the United States, which probably plays into that. It wasn’t enough to take me out of the story, you know, magic reincarnated cupids with love guns and all, but I definitely see the point you’re making. She’s working with a translator and the publishers directly in writing this, so it’s possible the decision to set the story in japan at all was not entirely her decision. Not that kinda glazing over same sex relationships still being less than socially accepted is particularly uncommon, though (thinking of stuff like ささやくように恋を唄う 1 | L20 here, where it just kinda jumps straight into the girls liking each other without any second thoughts about it)
There are yuri that deal more with that kinda subdued “oh if I try to confess her and they don’t reciprocate this could be bad bad for me”, but then people complain about those series never going anywhere and sometimes even not actually counting as yuri. Can’t even count the number of times I’ve gone through the same argument to (mostly western) fans of series complaining about the girls not kissing when the whole point of the series is the characters thinking about how hard it would be for the girls to actually kiss 
Additionally, we’re still early on in the story! Not yet ruling out that overlooking social norms when trying to figure out compatibility might come to bite our characters at some point, and that they’ve just gotten pretty lucky up to now. That’s something that also wouldn’t be out of place in a story like this, although it’s really hard to say because this is so fresh off the press. I’ve seen a lot of manga start off strong and then peter out as the author can’t quite figure out what to do, but I’m really hoping this one can stick around for a bit.
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Yeah, BL has the same problem.
The stories I like the most is when the characters overcome those issues (and then kissing happens). My problem in that case, though, is that the story typically ends there while I’m screaming “that’s not the end, that’s the beginning!”
I don’t know the context, but I guess it would depend on how the story is presented. If both characters are being extremely obvious about their attraction for each other, like, they can always stay hidden and avoid social issues… At the same time, the potential risks of confessing to someone who turns out to be straight are way too high…
Actually, that would be a fun development! I can also see the main character then trying to fix everything while “I only care about fighting” girl gets on the way for the lulz.
I don’t really know how the author being from the US really factors in all that, but I’m impressed by the effort it must have taken to get published in Japan.
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That may just be a problem with manga romance generally 
Going past the confession and into the relationship life feels rare in manga regardless of the genders of the members of that relationship
Depending on where she grew up in the US, there are genuinely places where gay relationships are basically a non-issue socially, at least within the sphere of people you might date. If you are gay and confess to someone who isn’t, bummer, but it’s not like the end of the world for you. People are out and very publicly out, and especially for younger people who might not remember how recently all this became more socially acceptable, they might not even consider that it would ever have been an issue. Part of that argument I have so much is explaining to people that it has not always been like that here, and it’s definitely not like that in many other parts of the world 
They lack a real frame of reference for the implied bad things that might happen if taking that risk doesn’t pay off, all they see is “why don’t the girls either just kiss already or move on?” (not saying inee is necessarily like this, but since she is also pretty young it’s something to think about)
Definitely agree there, we need more of those stories!
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That’s why 君に紡ぐ傍白 | L21 was such a nice change of pace. Most of the manga is after the characters are actually dating.
青のフラッグ | L24 definitely has a more balanced approach too.
But I agree it’s not that common. It seems to usually be “end with the confession” or “toxic relationship from the beginning that may or may not count as dating”.
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I’m just going to add those to the wishlist pile, then. 
(Note: the following isn’t yuri, but LGBT stuff in general, with mostly AMAB characters)
As for me, I really liked しまなみ誰そ彼 | L27 and 不可解なぼくのすべてを | L22. Both felt too short, though.
トラップヒロイン | L21 was interesting, as one character has to overcome internalized homophobia/transphobia but has the issue of stopping at the point where kissing happen (yet it’s not like the previous issues went away, the character is just starting to deal with them).
That sounds really nice! I have to admit, that’s not the image I had of the US (At the same time, the image I have is from people on twitter raving about how every single LGBTQ+ person is actually a groomer or something… I’m glad I can’t access that social media anymore 
)
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That sounds really nice! I have to admit, that’s not the image I had of the US
All I say is that English-speaking internet is… a cesspool especially since Twitter has been taken over that guy. 
“Depending on where she grew up in the US” is saving a lot of the discussion though. This country is too big.
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The first is yuri, but just to clarify the second isn’t. It does have LGBT characters and themes though.
That’s because the bigots are always the loudest. 
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Yeah to clarify, it’s absolutely not everywhere in the US, but if you’re around the big cities on the west coast like Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, or are young and in one of the little college towns around there, the youth cultures are remarkably progressive (trying hard not to overgeneralize even by just giving those as examples). But even in areas pretty close to those cities, as soon as you start to move away from them that attitude rapidly shifts. But how many high school/early college kids are going to have spent much time outside where they have grown up? If that’s the only blissful world you’ve been exposed to, easy to unconsciously discount things outside that world.
Another thing that’s really struck me talking to a lot of younger adults from these places is just how different dating culture is now. The ways people meet, communicate about what they want/expect from relationships, participate in relationships, and all that kind of stuff are very different from how relationships played out when I was that age (I’m not even that old!), and certainly different than how relationships are playing out in most manga.
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Ill be curious to see if the Love Bullet thing bothers me when I read it (I can certainly get why it’s bothering you at this point)
That’s kinda what I was getting at. And honestly you can usually spot those titles a mile away anyway. At least based on the series I’ve read and looked at, I just don’t see much correlation.
I’d be happy to rec more that start with/don’t end with dating, if you’d like (I’ll leave out the toxic ones 
); including ones where they do have to deal with same sex relationships not being socially accepted
Personally I’m really glad stories like these exist for 3 reasons: 1. It gives the author potentially more freedom to focus on the story they want to tell. 2. Not every author would do a good job of handling or incorporating those themes 3. It’s nice to read something where you (or at least the wlw main characters) are the default for once
To be clear, I like the other kind too. I just think it’s important that there’s both. And I definitely share the frustration over so many stories ending with the confession.
Please recommend me some of these. I’d love to read any that I haven’t already.
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Some variety is always nice, so count me in. I prefer no details beyond that though, so please use spoiler tags liberally!
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Also agree with this, sometimes it’s nice to just have the same kind of happy romance fluff with gay characters that straight romances are allowed to have without anyone questioning it too much. Which kind I want to read, fluff or overcoming social obstacles, depends on the day and my own mood at the time, but it’s nice that there’s both
Honestly every single time I have looked up a yuri series you have already rated it, even the ones that I think are either pretty deep cuts or are ones that “surely no one would be bold enough to publicly list this as read”, so I’m not sure if the kinds of series that mainly younger college level kids reading as translated manga and arguing about them will be the kinds of things you haven’t read マリア様がみてる is one that we’ve argued about a lot, which I know you’ve been reading (although class S is a whole different ballgame)
and also honestly, I haven’t read that much yuri! I’m new to this game since I started learning japanese. Romance is not something I really read or enjoyed at all in english or much in translation, so it’s only really been a year or two of my branching out and (slowly) reading what I can. Like, I haven’t even finished やがて君にはる yet, I’m still missing out on many of the common ground staples myself
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No worries! That’s fine too.
I would like that a lot, yes!
I agree with your feeling, but with some small caveats. Number 2 sounds like the author isn’t good at their job… but that’s their problem, it shouldn’t be the reader’s problem For number 1 and 3, I feel like in most cases that can be addressed quickly in the intro (or somewhere, at least). Like, in the story that started this discussion, the main characters are magical being, they can just mention (i.e. make explicit) that things would work out because, duh, magic. It could be because we isekai’d in a parallel universe (actually, I have literally read multiple BL stories like that ). I would even take the author breaking the 4th wall to say “friend, just don’t worry about it, 'kay” over nothing. Then, I agree with all your points
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This gave me a good laugh tho I’m curious what you have in mind by “pretty deep cuts” here
Ahhh, I’ve seen some ppl get grumpy over Class S stuff, but pretty hard to say it’s not yuri, imo (especially that particular series). I can understand where the grumpiness is coming from, but I personally really like all the ambiguous, in btwn, temporary, etc stuff.
Similar. In fact learning Japanese (and I think Natively specifically) is directly responsible for the addiction to love of yuri I’ve developed! As well as the high amount of other romance (and SoL) I’ve read. Definitely never read or consider a lot this in English… tho many of my fav fantasy series of course had romance
やがきみ was my first yuri (like many others). Tbh I also still feel like I’m missing many staples there’s just so much to read!!
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Ok, so just going from stuff I have on my bookshelf (with as minimal info as possible):
- はなにあらし | L19 - dating at start, acceptance themes are central to plot
- アネモネは熱を帯びる | L22
- 小春と湊 わたしのパートナーは女の子 | L23 - autobiographical, adults, already dating, pure fluff (overly so tbh)
- しかばね少女と愛が重い聖騎士の討伐学園ライフ | L22
- ささやくように恋を唄う | L20
- 崖っぷち令嬢は黒騎士様を惚れさせたい! 1 1 | L25 - married, almost from start
- 〆切前には百合が捗る | L28 - acceptance themes are central to plot
- 姉の親友、私の恋人。 | L25 - adults, tho the main theme of this is overcoming incestuous romantic feelings
- ロンリーガールに逆らえない 1 | L22 - deals with acceptance
- 青い花 | L27 - depending on which characters (large ensemble cast), may deal somewhat with acceptance (idrc). Can be slightly heavy sometimes. Also a bit of cousin incest early on
- 陰キャギャルでもイキがりたい! | L29 - subculture is the focus, more than romance
- 羽山先生と寺野先生は付き合っている | L22 - adults, dating at start iirc, I’ve been told it gets NSFW later on
- 加瀬さんシリーズ | L18
I’ll try to add more from my Finished list later on
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Finished ひとつ火の粉の雪の中 (新潮文庫 あ 81-1 nex) | L33 - I enjoyed it, but I’m also very sympathetic to this Amazon review:
アマゾンのレビューの評価が高かったので読んでみたが、私には意味が分からなかった。ストーリーが理解できなかった。こんな読書体験は恐らく初めてだ。主人公の鳳と夜闇はどのような存在なのか、何を求めているのか、最後まで分からず仕舞いだった。
Because yeah, it was weird, hard to follow, and a bit pointless feeling. But I still liked it.
Moving on to 培養カプセルを抜けだしたら、出迎えてくれたのは僕を溺愛する先輩だった | L32??
I’m not even sure why I bought this, or why I’m reading it over all the other stuff sitting on the 積読 shelf. Going in with minimal expectations.
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Almost done with 私を喰べたい、ひとでなし | L21 - 1 more volume, plus whatever uncollected chapters there are. Will definitely get added to my monthlies. Kinda frustrated it’s taken me 3 days (I’ve been sick or something, so energy on and off).
Anyway a variety of things in it are very handwavey, but overall it’s beautiful art, decent psychological & interpersonal drama, with constant twists and great cliffhangers, and full of youkai!! It’s dark, but not too heavy (tho CW for suicide themes). The gory confrontations are very moderate, in terms of what they show. Overall a solid 4/5 for me
Anyone have more youkai recs?!
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Do you mean in general, or with romance theme? With a focus on the art?
I found 百鬼夜行抄 1 | L31 beautiful. It’s episodic (each chapter is a self contained story with very little progression that I can see), which is not my thing in general (and the reason why I gave it 4* instead of 5), but it’s very good anyway.
I guess it is on the harder end when it comes to manga though
If you don’t care and just want yokai, https://learnnatively.com/series/44d2bd8032/ and ぬらりひょんの孫 | L26 are fun shonen manga series. There’s nothing atmospheric (or romantic) about them, though
https://learnnatively.com/series/1a7e3e7831/ is also a classic when it comes to yokai.
神様はじめました 第1巻 | L28 is fun too, although not ground breaking in anyway.
I liked the LN かくりよの宿飯 あやかしお宿に嫁入りします。 | L32 and I’m pretty sure there’s a manga (at the very least, there’s an anime)
お狐様の異類婚姻譚 元旦那様に求婚されているところです | L38 has yokai and (heterosexual) romance, but it was kinda meh. If you are yokai-starved I guess.
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