終わり 🪑 告白 🙊

[cat]

Welcome to the final week of 告白!

Character List Wiki

We are following the below schedule (page counts may vary based on your medium):

Week 1 - Up until star break. Sentence ending in 殺されたからです。- 9% / p.29
Week 2 - Through end of chapter 1 - 19% / p.61
Week 3 - Up until star break. Sentence ending in 救われた気分でした。- 28% / p. 87
Week 4 - Through end of chapter 2 - 38% / p. 119
Week 5 - Chapter 3 - 54% / p. 169
Week 6 - up until bolded section starting with 四歳児 - 64% / p. 196
Week 7 - through end of chapter 4 - 74% / p. 229
Week 8 - through end of book - 100% / p. 301

I will generally copy this information over thread to thread each week for ease of finding - you can always expect the schedule at the top of any weekly thread

Law and Order

• Any reveals, for the current chapters must be behind spoilers or detail curtains. When we get further in you don’t need to hide details that were revealed in previous chapters.
• Questions on vocab, grammar, nuance, and the like are both welcome and encouraged. If you’re not sure if it’s a spoiler, assume it is and use one of the above options to hide the text.
• You are encouraged to speculate and guess wildly
• Be kind about other peoples’ wild guesses
• Even if you don’t read the chapter(s) in time, you are still encouraged to post in the thread for that reading once you have finished it. I advise not reading ahead in the threads as you may see spoilers.

To gauge participation - a poll!

Are you finishing 告白?

• Yes, I’m planning to read along/am reading along this week
• I’m reading, but not at the same pace as the club
• I’m just following the discussion

Happy sleuthing!

[MintTea]

From all the perspectives I have to say I enjoyed 修哉’s the least. I’m not quite sure why. I think I was hoping that 直樹 was wrong and 修哉 only meant to knock out 愛美 instead of killing her.
I liked the ambiguity of the first chapter with student A being the one with the worse intent, but student B’s actions being what actually caused the terrible outcome.

Seems like we were sort of right about ウェルテル being a plant, although I expected him to be more actively involved instead of just getting bad advice.

That ending. I’m almost tempted to believe that 森口先生 was lying about what she did with the bomb, but everything in the text seems to point to her telling the truth. Sort of a nice parallel with both of the boys inadvertently killing their own mother, but what the heck is wrong with that teacher? This really is just terrible people doing terrible things to each other. I don’t even want to know how many innocent bystanders got hurt or killed.

I think this was a great pick for the book club, I certainly enjoyed reading everyone’s opinions every week.

[Biblio]

@MintTea

terrible people doing terrible things

Is it though? Is it not normal people who have been driven to going bonkers by circumstances? i.e. everyone can become a murderer if the circumstances are right? And while to an adult the circumstances for the teens seem stupid - don’t forget that teens feel things very differently and it’s often 0 or 100, there is very little subtetly in a kid’s emotion. And the death/murder of a child will drive many parents over the edge - especially when there is no support system, e.g. their spouse is also dead. There is only so much our psyche can take before it breaks.

Regarding the bomb, I don’t know if the teacher is a reliable narrator. She has lied before. Maybe she just wanted to make him feel all the feelings before he figures out his mother is still alive. We don’t know. We will never know. And I am a bit unsatisfied with that ending, ngl. I don’t like ambiguity in my endings.

[eefara]

Haven’t started this week’s reading yet, but since it was brought up before: is there any interest in doing a mini 告白 movie-watching club after we finish the book? You can find providers on it’s movie page.

Interested in watching the 告白 movie?

• I’d be interested
• No thanks

If so, do you want to see if we can watch concurrently via some sort of watch party app or something, or separately?

If so, how?

• Concurrently
• Separately

[omk3]

@eefara

You can find providers on it’s movie page.

No providers for me unfortunately

[eefara]

Yeah; I have a feeling most here might need to use a VPN to view the movie. It doesn’t seem to be particularly widely available, sadly.

[Biblio]

I voted seperately because I have to use an… “alternative” provider. honestly, companies are really making it hard. I am happy to give them my money, but they just don’t want it.

[oni564]

@MintTea

From all the perspectives I have to say I enjoyed 修哉’s the least.

For me, his perspective felt the most detached and the most arrogant. He has deep-seated issues, even going so far as the view the circumstances of his own birth as a failing on his mother’s part, but he’s clearly a lonely person and is too proud to admit it. If 直樹 only wants to socialize with people he deems worthy, 修哉 takes this twisted mindset a step further and only views his mother as someone deserving of his attention/affection/whatever he feels inside that noggin of his.

I kinda felt bad about dragging ウェルテル the way I did when 森口先生’s heavy handed influence on his decisions was revealed. It adds a level of despair to ウェルテル’s saga because we see that his motivations to be a good role model aren’t exactly misplaced, it’s just that he was blindfolded and slowly being led towards the edge of a cliff while doing it. He is very self-serving and has the sensibilities of an oaf, but at least we see now that he was emboldened by the (messed-up) reassurance from 森口先生 and not just huffing the smell of his own farts. It doesn’t completely absolve him but I do feel more sympathy towards him, at least more than I did before.

@MintTea

That ending. I’m almost tempted to believe that 森口先生 was lying about what she did with the bomb, but everything in the text seems to point to her telling the truth.

@Biblio

Regarding the bomb, I don’t know if the teacher is a reliable narrator. She has lied before.

森口先生 reveals in the letter that 桜宮 was the one that replaced the milk meant for 直樹 and 修哉 to explain why neither of them contracted HIV, but if we take this as a lie we can take it to 森口先生 just wants to keep 修哉 and 直樹 afraid (although it was more effective towards 直樹 than 修哉 since he actually wanted to die from a disease).

I do agree with y’all that she probably is lying about the bomb because this whole book was about trying to make the two students recognize the sanctity of life and what they took from her in their closed-off bubble of experience. She knows what happened to 美月 and she knows 修哉 will be sent to jail for it but his imprisonment isn’t enough for her because she knows he doesn’t value himself; she wanted 修哉 to be tortured by the fear of causing the death of his mother, the only person he feels affection for and went so far as to kill someone who badmouthed her, while he awaits his trial. Even if the fear is momentary, it will be deep and it will be difficult to reconcile since 修哉 has made pleasing his mother his identity.

[Thud]

Been a while since I finished. Schedule wise it got much easier after a while. It is also easier for me to read when you have more room dedicated to it than just nibbling bits at a time.

I did not expect to laugh at the absurdity of the way the book ends when I started reading it. It’s been a wild ride from start to finish with all the deception thrown at me. Shortly after finishing it I was a bit confused on what to feel or think of it. Was definitely way better than I had hoped, but I’m also much harsher on books than other forms of media. I couldn’t give it full stars and natively doesn’t accept half stars, so it’s 4 stars.

To me it’s the little details that make it just not feel right or dropping a bomb shell and then leaving it at that. I do applaud the effort and the kids got properly schooled. Kids do the dumbest things for the silliest reasons. But all the more reason to have a proper justice system in place.

Not sure when I’ll join the next book club here. This one was a bit of a happy coincidence.

[cat]

Took me awhile to find time to read this as I wanted to do it all in one shot and I just don’t have that much free time lately - but I’m done!

@Biblio

honestly, companies are really making it hard. I am happy to give them my money, but they just don’t want it.

Likewise. It’s better than it used to be, but still frustrating how many things I literally can’t pay for even though I want to.

@oni564

He is very self-serving and has the sensibilities of an oaf, but at least we see now that he was emboldened by the (messed-up) reassurance from 森口先生 and not just huffing the smell of his own farts.

I thought that it was kind of vicious of her to use him like that, poor guy. He is an idiot, though.

I personally really want 森口先生 to have placed the bomb. Whether or not it was able to go off, doesn’t matter. But I would love for her to have placed it, and I would love for his mother to know it was him.
Maybe I’m a terrible person but that’s such a dramatic ending I do love the ambiguity though, I think it was well played.

I will say I don’t think his mother is responsible for how he turned out - it certainly seems like there was something wrong with his value system re: human life from the beginning and his reading of / manipulation of people gives baby psychopath vibes. I don’t think he can really be scared straight when his moral compass has a broken magnet.

This book seemed to span different ‘mother’ tropes. A mother’s love, a mourning mother’s revenge, overcoddling, and the pain of a mother’s abandonment. It didn’t feel heavy handed, though. Interestingly, and I’m not sure how much of this is story and how much is Japanese culture, but the fathers all felt incredibly absent. With the exception of 修哉’s father protecting him (for which he was not really acknowledged), the other fathers were almost missing, albeit for varied reasons.

[Biblio]

@cat

I will say I don’t think his mother is responsible for how he turned out - it certainly seems like there was something wrong with his value system re: human life from the beginning

Hm… somehow I messed up my reply and this part got deleted. Guess I’ll have to write it again.

I don’t think parents are at fault for 100% but they certainly are responsible for some of it. It’s the old nurture vs. nature story. Not every psychopath/sociopath turns into a murderer. Children with mental disabilities thrive depending on how much parents are able/willing to put into them. In the past, kids were put into mental institutions never to be seen again, until some parents decided to give them a chance and saw how much could be done. Psychopathic children usually show early symptoms but if parents choose to ignore them (when they are in a position to help), that’s on them.

@cat

I’m not sure how much of this is story and how much is Japanese culture, but the fathers all felt incredibly absent.

It’s not just Japanese ficiton. Fathers are very absent in Western fiction, too. Sometimes literally physically not there and sometimes they are physically there but could be substituted for a potato sack for the impact they have. The majority of the impact, blame, importance, … falls always on the mother. I wish we would get more stories - especially for teens and younger - that show single dads and stay at home dads and just dads actually being part of family and equal. The reality is that women still do more for the family, but if you don’t give people positive examples, how are they supposed to learn that alternatives are possible?

[cat]

@Biblio

I don’t think parents are at fault for 100% but they certainly are responsible for some of it. It’s the old nurture vs. nature story

Yeah I agree with this - I feel like as a character 修哉 is written to be beyond redemption, but if he were a real person I think there’s always a possibility. It’s a long and hard road though, to turn some ships around.

@Biblio

The reality is that women still do more for the family, but if you don’t give people positive examples, how are they supposed to learn that alternatives are possible?

[eefara]

Just finished up myself, and it was a wild ride as expected. It was interesting how little focus was put on 美月’s death. Like, it makes sense that 修哉 didn’t really care, but I guess it’s just a mark of all the shocking things in this book that she gets, like, a sentence in the moment and like two afterwards, haha. Talk about an unjust fate.

Moreso than whether the bomb went off in the finale, I’m curious what 修哉’s mom’s reaction was to reading his “love letter”. It almost makes me wonder if, if the bomb didn’t really go off, if she could have been part of it in the end after discussing things with 森口. Idk; it’s completely empty speculation, there’s no way to know, but it’s fun to think of.

Speaking of 修哉’s mom, I had a question from very near the end of chapter 6, when 修哉 is talking to 瀬口教授：

「はは、いい歳してって思うだろ。去年の秋、入籍してね、五十を前にようやく一児の父になろうってんだから、恥ずかしい話だよ」

What exactly is that highlighted phrase saying, and how does it connect to 五十を前に? I didn’t read it wrong when 瀬口教授 said she married 修哉’s mom, right?

Anyway, I really enjoyed the book; I’m really glad I got the chance to read it all with you! If there’s still interest, I can put up a thread in the Watching forum for people to post their thoughts on the movie; I definitely want to watch it at some point.

@Biblio

The reality is that women still do more for the family, but if you don’t give people positive examples, how are they supposed to learn that alternatives are possible?

I’m all of two volumes in, so this may be totally incorrect , but it feels like ミステリと言う勿れ 1 | L30 seems to maybe have at least partly a theme of fathers not really being present (or present in a bad way) with their families. At least, there are hints of that with the protagonist so far. Like I said, I’m suuuuper early in, so it may not end up being much of a theme, but thought I’d mention it.

[oni564]

@eefara

What exactly is that highlighted phrase saying, and how does it connect to 五十を前に? I didn’t read it wrong when 瀬口教授 said she married 修哉’s mom, right?

I’m reading the highlighted phrase as “the father of a child”. In context with the sentence, 瀬口教授 is sharing how it might be nice to become a father before he turned 50 (五十を前に referring to his age, most likely), so he and 修哉’s mother got married last autumn.

@eefara

It was interesting how little focus was put on 美月’s death. Like, it makes sense that 修哉 didn’t really care, but I guess it’s just a mark of all the shocking things in this book that she gets, like, a sentence in the moment and like two afterwards, haha. Talk about an unjust fate.

I completely agree, she just dies so unceremoniously! But maybe I felt this way because I think she had the most sympathetic chapter in the novel.

@cat

This book seemed to span different ‘mother’ tropes. A mother’s love, a mourning mother’s revenge, overcoddling, and the pain of a mother’s abandonment. It didn’t feel heavy handed, though.

One of my favorite aspects of the book. Considering how much social commentary there was I’m surprised that it overall was not more heavy-handed but it’s probably because it’s an engaging story before it’s a serious social critique (although they are not too far apart from each other).

[eefara]

@oni564

In context with the sentence, 瀬口教授 is sharing how it might be nice to become a father before he turned 50

Oooh. I totally thought he was a woman, haha. That clears up the confusion; thanks!

[StarlitGlitch]

I just had a final job interview this Monday and was focused on preparing for that, so it took me a bit longer to finish the book!

General thoughts:

修哉’s perspective was the least interesting to me. This was probably the “slowest” reading for me to get through, at least at first. We knew from the beginning of the reading what his perspective was, so when he retold events there weren’t any real surprises in it (other than some perspective on 美月). Also I couldn’t stand his attitude lol

When 修哉 first starting talking about the bomb plans at school and it became clear it was because of the love of his mother I kept thinking of Meant to Be Yours from the Heather musical. If you haven’t heard it and don’t mind some spoilers I highly recommend listening to it.

I understand why 修哉 wasn’t able to comprehend it, but I was hoping for a character to spell out to him that his mother had been abusive and that’s why they can’t meet.

Agreed with feeling bad for ウエルテル at the end. I just remembered 美月 commented how much better 森口 handled things, only for it to turn out that she was behind his actions…

Overall I did enjoy the book from beginning to end.

The main takeaway I got from the book:

The main message I got from the story was “Don’t take actions for the sake of how other people will react because you never know their full story.”

Countless times throughout the book characters made assumptions on how other characters are feeling/what they think and do things to try to illicit a specific response from them, only for it to fail because they didn’t really understand the person.

If this wasn’t the case, retelling the same story from the same perspective so many times wouldn’t have been very interesting haha. It’s only because characters misjudged each other that we were able to find out new information that changed how we thought about the situations.

Even something small like “make the traitor and the murderer with HIV kiss as revenge” failed because the two started dating lol.

One thing I noted too is that there are two sections of the book that are characters writing out events specifically for other people to read: 美月 and 修哉. We already found out later from 修哉’s perspective how 美月 wasn’t fully 100% writing out the truth on what she was thinking in her writing, so I think it’s probable that that’s the case with 修哉 as well (even with 直樹’s mom’s diary there are some parts where it feels like she’s not willing to admit her true feelings).

Because of this, I think the most fitting ending to the story would be: “The bomb does go off and kills 修哉’s mom, but he is happy about this and 森口’s revenge is ruined.” Do I think this is the case? Probably not haha.

I was trying to figure out what the message about moms is. I think what other people said here about giving different perspectives on motherhood makes sense.

Definitely would like to see the movie! Probably easiest to watch it separately then talk about it after. If we do, should I be watching the “now reading” thread for info on it, or where should I look?

EDIT: Wow I wrote a lot more than I had thought

[eefara]

@StarlitGlitch

We already found out later from 修哉’s perspective how 美月 wasn’t fully 100% writing out the truth on what she was thinking in her writing

Could you remind me about this? Which part turned out to not be accurate?

@StarlitGlitch

Because of this, I think the most fitting ending to the story would be: “The bomb does go off and kills 修哉’s mom, but he is happy about this and 森口’s revenge is ruined.” Do I think this is the case? Probably not haha.

Hahaha, I could definitely see something twisty like that; it would make a lot of sense.

@StarlitGlitch

Definitely would like to see the movie! Probably easiest to watch it separately then talk about it after. If we do, should I be watching the “now reading” thread for info on it, or where should I look?

I still need to create a post. I figure I’ll make a home post of sorts in the Watching forum, and people can post there when they’ve seen the movie.

[StarlitGlitch]

@eefara

Could you remind me about this? Which part turned out to not be accurate?

Or maybe it wasn’t “inaccurate,” but more like she wasn’t being fully truthful about why she decided to pin 直樹 killing his mom on ウエルテル/make him look bad, or why she was thinking about killing people/buying chemicals.

@eefara

I still need to create a post. I figure I’ll make a home post of sorts in the Watching forum, and people can post there when they’ve seen the movie.

That’ll be great! I took a peak at the trailer and MyDramaList and 修哉 and 直樹 look exactly like how I pictured them, I wonder what other people will think haha

[cat]

@StarlitGlitch

I took a peak at the trailer and MyDramaList and 修哉 and 直樹 look exactly like how I pictured them, I wonder what other people will think haha

I went to look too and I recognize the actor playing Terada and am excited for his performance! I don’t think I’ve seen anything with him so young, though, only watched his recent shows. He’s a little bit over-the-top, though, which is perfect for Terada.

[eefara]

@StarlitGlitch

That’ll be great! I took a peak at the trailer and MyDramaList and 修哉 and 直樹 look exactly like how I pictured them, I wonder what other people will think haha

@cat

I went to look too and I recognize the actor playing Terada and am excited for his performance! I don’t think I’ve seen anything with him so young, though, only watched his recent shows. He’s a little bit over-the-top, though, which is perfect for Terada.

I put up a rather barebones thread! I’ve got my hands on the movie; I’m hoping to watch it this weekend.