Spoilers should always be hidden using spoiler blur.
When discussing a specific section, please mention where you are in the book, ideally by chapter so people reading different versions have a clear point of reference.
Feel free to read ahead if it’s exciting, but please refrain from spoiling ahead of the appropriate week.
If you have a question about grammar, vocab, cultural things, etc - ask! That’s a welcome part of the discussion too, and other readers will be happy to help.
Are you reading along with us?
Yes!
I’m reading at my own pace
I’m just here for the discussion
0voters
Character names
Kanji
Reading
Info
家頭 清貴
やがしら きよたか
ホームズ
家頭 武史
やがしら たけし
店長
家頭 誠司
やがしら せいじ
オーナー
真城 葵
ましろ あおい
Main character
上田
うえだ
Childhood friend of 店長, regular
美恵子
みえこ
Owner of the shop diagonally across, often comes to enjoy some coffee
I started listening to the audiobook for the first time this week and hearing the correct Japanese pronunciation of カフェオレ is troubling. Even if I try shadowing the 朗読者, I can tell that I still have some remnants of the French café au lait in my speech that I can’t seem to shake off in this particular word. Mostly in the オレ part. My rendition does not sound Japanese and I can’t understand why.
On a more grammatical note, what’s the deal with に in a listing of different people?
When using に to list similar things, it gives the nuance that you are noticing/remembering them one at a time/as you think of them while speaking.
Here, that would mean that the first two are identified immediately as a set (because of their clothes), then 葵 noticed 香織 with a small delay (due to her different dress style).
Oh, perfect, that’s a good example of the other variation I was talking about (saying things as you remember them).
なんたって introduces that the speaker is thinking in real time, and the enumeration is marked by に (although the second に is dropped in favor of a simple comma).
I’m surprised you’ve never come across that use, @Vie, but you get near textbook usages in close succession here
I understand it as something similar to “on top of”. “There is this, and there is also that”. Translating it a bit creatively, it would look like “in contrast to those two wearing kimono, …” or in 美恵子さん’s case, “not only their intelligence, but also their character and family background”.
I mean, just by mentioning them separately, she already creates a contrast because semantically there is one. And as she mentions them in two groups through に and contrasts them even more through だけ, I’d argue using “in contrast” is appropriate. But I’m not a native speaker and might be wrong.
As you said at the beginning of your own post, it’s more of an “on top of” or as @Biblio said “oh and also”. “there are two in kimono, on top of which there’s Kaori-san who’s the only one wearing a dress”
I’m not a native English (nor Japanese) speaker, but “contrast” gives me the idea of opposition, while here they are just presented as different rather than opposed, I feel.
I’ve always thought of に in this context as kind of a shorter, weaker version of に加えて (which I guess you could translate as “in addition to” or “on top of that”). It’s not exactly the same, but close enough that it makes sense to me that way.
Done with this week The names in the OP definitely helped, thanks again @Naphthalene .
I marked a couple of things from this weeks reading to look into later, but I have been quite lazy on that front too
story comments
I looked up pictures and maps of the 下鴨神社 as I read. Which, while definitely nice, took a long time I probably should have spend doing other things
I remembered correctly that it was both of the sisters - did not remember their reasons at all. Kind of sad that the younger sister is giving up so much (like taking Ikebana classes, which she seems to enjoy a lot, not to mention having her work passed off as her sisters), and doesn’t even get an apology or anything from her family members
I hope we see more of her And 葵 finally gets a friend
It’s what I liked about Fruits Basket and hate about a lot of other stories with female characters: They don’t have female friends. And if they do, it’s more of an enemies to friendly rivals kinda thing. But having female friends that you are not competing with and that are just supportive is kinda rare.
I agree. I know it’s often done for efficient writing - you don’t need to introduce as many different characters… But it makes the social life of the main character soo sad. Kinda unrealistic too, like why do they all befriend people that were openly antagonistic towards them
8 Likes
As an Amazon Associate, Natively earns from qualifying purchases through any Amazon links on the site.
TBF, it didn’t bother me (aka I didn’t even notice) but I do not remember learning this use ever. 
The names in the OP definitely helped, thanks again 
And 葵 finally gets a friend 